Team to analyze a non conformance

Graciel · Mar 17, 2021

Hi!
I am a new quality anyway at a big company. I'm very surprised about their pont of view of solving supply chain issues (which is treated by quality analyst + plus logistic team )and by supply chain issues I mean: broken pallets, issues at the package, issues occurred during the transport, issues founded at the product but may be caused by humidity.
In this humidity case, it may be caused by bad package or production process and same thing to be considered for pallet issues, sometimes they can happen during transport, sometimes at the final production process.
The way this company treat this issues:
- logistic analyse this separately
- process engineers, analyse it separately
If logistic says "I didn't cause this issue" and process says " I didn't cause his issue", it takes forever to solve the issue.
I think this process of analysing separately is just strange.
What do you think?
Thanks.

Ninja · Mar 17, 2021

I think it could be a well rounded approach (multiple points of view) as long as "Not me" was not an allowable answer.

"It looks like someone hit it with a fork truck." from one
"I've seen that mark before...it's the back bumper prong from a skid steer, and we only have one of those in receiving" from the other.

"I didn't do it" has no value to anyone.

Graciel · Mar 17, 2021

Ninja said:
I think it could be a well rounded approach (multiple points of view) as long as "Not me" was not an allowable answer.

"It looks like someone hit it with a fork truck." from one
"I've seen that mark before...it's the back bumper prong from a skid steer, and we only have one of those in receiving" from the other.

"I didn't do it" has no value to anyone.

So you agree that we shouldn't do a cause analisys meeting separately?

Ninja · Mar 17, 2021

Not much of an answer here...but I don't know a thing about how your company works or wants to work.

I agree that root cause should be determined by any method that gets the job done and gives you the information needed to prevent or minimize recurrence.

In my experience people can say "not my fault" just as easily together as they can separately.

Bev D · Mar 17, 2021

Physics rarely respects organizational boundaries. he situations you describe are systems. we should treat them as such.
Causal mechanisms can be complex and not obvious even in seemingly simple problems. Departments and functions are never solely the 'originator' of a causal mechanism, not are they solely responsible for developing and implementing a solution. The very nature of assigning and investigation to a single group will more often than not create a 'not me' response. This is a symptom of a culture of blame. the only way to survive in that kind of culture is to deny fault and blame the other guy. but it's not about root blame; it's about the root causal mechanism. And yes I deliberately say mechanism because it's not really a single root thing, it is a mechanism that causes problems....So called Root Cause analysis is a team sport, it is not golf. This is why the 8D process has form a team as one of the first steps. Not using and crossfunctional/cross discipline team is so 2 centuries ago.

Graciel · Mar 17, 2021

Bev D said:
Physics rarely respects organizational boundaries. he situations you describe are systems. we should treat them as such.
Causal mechanisms can be complex and not obvious even in seemingly simple problems. Departments and functions are never solely the 'originator' of a causal mechanism, not are they solely responsible for developing and implementing a solution. The very nature of assigning and investigation to a single group will more often than not create a 'not me' response. This is a symptom of a culture of blame. the only way to survive in that kind of culture is to deny fault and blame the other guy. but it's not about root blame; it's about the root causal mechanism. And yes I deliberately say mechanism because it's not really a single root thing, it is a mechanism that causes problems....So called Root Cause analysis is a team sport, it is not golf. This is why the 8D process has form a team as one of the first steps. Not using and crossfunctional/cross discipline team is so 2 centuries ago.

So yeah, the teams analyse separately, then they get together just to say"I didn't cause this issue(or my department didn't cause this issue).

Bev D · Mar 17, 2021

doomed to failure.

Ninja · Mar 17, 2021

Who did this?
"Not me"
That's what children do... adults shouldn't get to use that answer IMO.

Tagin · Mar 17, 2021

Graciel said:
If logistic says "I didn't cause this issue" and process says " I didn't cause his issue", it takes forever to solve the issue.
I think this process of analysing separately is just strange.
What do you think?

Yes, it is strange. It's sort of like: one group investigates one branch of a fishbone diagram, and another group investigates a different branch of a fishbone diagram. But nobody is investigating the entire diagram.

Randy · Mar 17, 2021

Teams = Committee and without centralized focus you result in a goat-roping competition

Ya gotta be careful, keep it focus, keep it organized and keep it controlled....A Gnu is nothing more than a dairy cow designed by a Committee-Group-Team not working together

Team to analyze a non conformance

Graciel

Involved In Discussions

Ninja

Looking for Reality

Graciel

Involved In Discussions

Ninja

Looking for Reality

Bev D

Heretical Statistician

Graciel

Involved In Discussions

Bev D

Heretical Statistician

Ninja

Looking for Reality

Tagin

Randy

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