Finally got a proper quality job - now do I know enough to do it?

After 11 years approximating a quality role in a small company I've got myself a decent job. I'm now in a big engineering company in the QA team. Tristandard certification but I'm basically only about the 9001 and sector specific requirements. I don't want / can't go into that.

Big co is taking it slow with bringing me online. Month in and it's likely to be next year before I'm doing the job. Training, training and more training, with the odd little task nobody had time for but it would be good to get done and reading up on so many management system documents and forms. Off my own bat I'm thinking I will read up on relevant topics.

To this end I have come back on here hoping someone would be kind enough to give advice. I'm going to be involved in auditing and my team deals with certification auditors. However whilst I've written small co QMS when they converted to current standard, complete rewrite of almost all of it, I seriously do not have enough internal audit experience. I'm thinking I need a good book on it and indeed other matters. So what books on internal auditing and QA would you recommend?

Any advice? I need to succeed, which I will, but I'm not a confident guy so I like to understand things rather too in depth to compensate.

As an aside, I applied for this job not expecting to get it. I got interview then another and so on. Each time I got to the next stage. Then they offered me a job at a level lower than the job I applied with a view ti get trained up to the higher level. As it turns out I had applied to quite a high level and my experience wasn't quite good enough. The plan is to give me that experience and move me up quickly. Yikes! That sounds like I'll need to get up to speed quickly once they get over this "don't want to frighten you off" stage. So I'm hoping someone on here can give a little bit of advice from experience.

To be more pointed in advice: what sector/product and what country/region? Assembly, processing, or contract manufacturing management?

by Dennis Arter, I was in ASQ with him in Washington State. I would suggest there is not a lot of difference between internal auditing and external auditing. You do have an advantage (and can be a disadvantage) that you are within the system (and aware of its workings) as an internal auditor.

TPMB4 said:

After 11 years approximating a quality role in a small company I've got myself a decent job. I'm now in a big engineering company in the QA team. Tristandard certification but I'm basically only about the 9001 and sector specific requirements. I don't want / can't go into that.

Big co is taking it slow with bringing me online. Month in and it's likely to be next year before I'm doing the job. Training, training and more training, with the odd little task nobody had time for but it would be good to get done and reading up on so many management system documents and forms. Off my own bat I'm thinking I will read up on relevant topics.

To this end I have come back on here hoping someone would be kind enough to give advice. I'm going to be involved in auditing and my team deals with certification auditors. However whilst I've written small co QMS when they converted to current standard, complete rewrite of almost all of it, I seriously do not have enough internal audit experience. I'm thinking I need a good book on it and indeed other matters. So what books on internal auditing and QA would you recommend?

Any advice? I need to succeed, which I will, but I'm not a confident guy so I like to understand things rather too in depth to compensate.

As an aside, I applied for this job not expecting to get it. I got interview then another and so on. Each time I got to the next stage. Then they offered me a job at a level lower than the job I applied with a view ti get trained up to the higher level. As it turns out I had applied to quite a high level and my experience wasn't quite good enough. The plan is to give me that experience and move me up quickly. Yikes! That sounds like I'll need to get up to speed quickly once they get over this "don't want to frighten you off" stage. So I'm hoping someone on here can give a little bit of advice from experience.

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I had concerns like this myself. A good start is to read through the previous audits and understand the format and controls already in place. You dont want be redesigning the wheel if its already working. Look at the audit schedule and see whats due for review and try and involve yourself in the process by watching how its done if you can, nothing worse than basically telling somebody they dont know what they are doing with a NC when you dont know how do the job yourself. For me i understood all the production functions as i had over 20 years experience on all the processes but i knew very little about the office side so i had to invest myself in understanding that. Dont be afraid to ask for help from the people you work with they will have experience you need but you will also have experience they need so give and take is always good. Also make sure you undetand the standard you are working against most have the same format but there are subtle differences if you are used to AS9100 you dont have to apply everthing to ISO9001 whereas you will have to add more if you reverse the two.

Jean_B said:

To be more pointed in advice: what sector/product and what country/region? Assembly, processing, or contract manufacturing management?

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I'm a bit wary about what I say due to the engineering / manufacturing area the company is in. UK company, global presence. Big engineering / manufacturing projects. Huge management system with a lot of processes, forms, etc. Not a very big team doing the assurance work considering, but gaining presence I think.

Sorry but I'm new to the company and just had all the mandatory security training so perhaps a bit paranoid after all that!

I've got a mini task to look at a certain type of audit report format with a view to streamline it. I think it's a newbie task to introduce me to the various people I've got to talk to about their ideas and to introduce various processes too. As part of that I'm looking at all audit reports and checks the company and its departments do. I've studied quite a few reports already. That's on top of all the processes and documents that form the MS. Quite a lot of heavy reading material!

TPMB4 said:

Big engineering / manufacturing projects

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A context like this typically requires someone with robust experience in Project Management to lead the Assurance function. Do you have PM knowledge?

We have a large PM department. I neighbour is one of them for another division in the group. Mind you he's applied for a job in my division. A thow away comment certainly made clear that he thinks PM are everyone's bosses. From an assurance pov they're not a bad department in their internal assurance side.

Sidney Vianna said:

A context like this typically requires someone with robust experience in Project Management to lead the Assurance function. Do you have PM knowledge?

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Our head of boss has experience in one of the big programmes before he came across, the director I believe came from another division. AIUI our division is a little behind others so there has been an influx of senior people from one of the other companies in the group to bring a drive to modernisation. Or at least that is what I believe has happened. The parent company works in a few high tech areas, safety & quality critical areas.

I myself have very little external training within past employers, they trained (or not) on the job. Now I am in a big co and finally looking at being offered LRQA training in auditing (internal or lead auditor training - up to me with my line manager). One possible going ahead this year. I could probably do project management training too if I give a good business relevant argument for the benefits.

BTW which auditor training would you recommend, internal or lead auditor? That is from LRQA I believe. I have heard lead auditor could be more difficult if you have not got the necessary experience to back up the training.

I have heard from people who have done Lead that internal auditor training might make a good first course even if you were confident of getting through the lead auditor course. Most went into lead first and missed internal though. Some struggled with lead and wished they had done internal first. Very conflicting advise from colleagues. AIUI internal is a couple of days less than the lead auditor.

As I have finally been brought into the real work now, albeit mostly desk audit, it seems we are looking more at the processes documented, as in do they meet requirements and are they being followed. We are not looking at compliance just assuring the QMS There is a team who do compliance we do assurance if that makes sense. Sorry if that is incorrect terminology. That is not to say we are silo'd as we are not, well not completely.

There are two big things I am learning. One is big company way of working and two is "what? The company actually pays for training?"!! The last is really about how the company puts a degree of control for your development into your own hands. The department has a training budget, I can try to get as much of it as I can if I can argue the business case for it. Lead or internal auditor course is an easy argument as everybody in our team and most of the other quality teams we deal with has lead auditor even if they do not audit, and some have it but do refuse to audit.

Anyway, I guess I am looking for any career advice relevant to big companies. I might be middle aged (50yo) but in many ways it is like I am starting out as my small co experience is showing to be less than relevant.

Congratulations TPMB4!

It is too early to get enough out of a Lead Auditor course. I often recommend the Cochran books ISO 9001:2015 In Plain English and Internal Auditing in Plain English because I think they are very good at explaining the subjects at the early user's preferred pace. They are available used or new. I have mine on Kindle as well as a hard copy of one to share with my peers at work.

Quality Assurance is an enormous subject. So much of it is topic specific. As you have questions about a particular subject we would be happy to answer, or in my case usually point you to reputable reading material.