Which of these are Processes and should have Process Maps and why?

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Randy said:

Yes it is...

There is an input called food

There is a value added activity called digestion

And there is definitely an output (which to the body adds value as well)

The measurement comes from satisfaction and relief of discomfort


As for some things being "sub-processes" remember, even a "subprocess" is a process, it's just part of a larger one. In fact everything going on in any organization can be called a "sub-process"

Ya gotta take it from a different perspective.

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How would a doctor use this process model to diagnose system failure?

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

michellemmm said:

How would a doctor use this process model to diagnose system failure?

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Problem with food to include fluids

Problem with upper digestive system

Problem with lower tract

A problem in any one or combination could be a cause of breakdown....

Either the above or a bad case of nerves can stsrt or stop the process abruptly

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Randy said:

Yes it is...

There is an input called food

There is a value added activity called digestion

And there is definitely an output (which to the body adds value as well)

The measurement comes from satisfaction and relief of discomfort


As for some things being "sub-processes" remember, even a "subprocess" is a process, it's just part of a larger one. In fact everything going on in any organization can be called a "sub-process"

Ya gotta take it from a different perspective.

Click to expand...

Randy:
You've given a great response which identifies the problem which is at the heart of much of why implementors get in trouble. They define their organization's processes in isolation of their management. By way of explanation:

The inputs to the body are, indeed food, however the output which is meaningful and measurable is energy - heat, work, nervous (electrical) etc. The waste is processed and expelled, yes, but it's not the desired output which is important to the process - and before you run off with the old joke about no output being bad, we're not using a good analogy anyway!

If we had used the guidance of a knowledgable person (in this case a doctor) we wouldn't have made assumptions about what the output was etc.

The danger, IMHO, is very real that when people start off by creating all kinds of documentation, nice looking graphics of process flows etc., they are often missing a vital point - it is an accurate description of the business?

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

AndyN said:

The waste is processed and expelled, yes, but it's not the desired output

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Andy, I think you just triggered an epiphany for a few Covers....

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

I was trying to keep it really simple Andy.

Too many times people equate process to a manufacturing focus only and that is not the case.

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Sorry I have arrived late. I voted for all of them.

I consider all of them important (significant) processes, to some group within the organization. The days of simple input/output, stimulus/ response have passed; too many things happening in the middle.

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

BradM said:

Sorry I have arrived late. I voted for all of them.

I consider all of them important (significant) processes, to some group within the organization. The days of simple input/output, stimulus/ response have passed; too many things happening in the middle.

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Yay for Brad

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

BradM said:

Sorry I have arrived late. I voted for all of them.

I consider all of them important (significant) processes, to some group within the organization. The days of simple input/output, stimulus/ response have passed; too many things happening in the middle.

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Brad,

I see your point. I'm not sure we can conclude that they all contribute equally to the success of the organization, though.

I'm pretty sure we can say they don't all merit the same level of attention, especially at any given point in time.

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Randy said:

Yes it is...

There is an input called food...

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I didn't vote because of the "...worthy of inclusion on your process map.", since I see no requirement for a process map.

But Randy, you are only partially correct.

What other inputs do you need?
Toilet?
Toilet Paper?
Reading Material?
Water for the Toilet?
Instructions?
Lighting?

When looking at the inputs, you really should consider all of the inputs.

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Thanks to all who have contributed to the thread .... and before you ask the skiing was magnificent!

Just to clear up a couple of things:

1. Yes, they are all processes
2. They are all important in their own way

db said:

I didn't vote because of the "...worthy of inclusion on your process map.", since I see no requirement for a process map.

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There is no requirement for a process map, please excuse my shorthand, if I have to explain every word and phrase the flow gets lost. A bit like reading a dictionary as a novel - not much of a plot but at least every word is explained as you go along!
If we take the ISO wording for the requirement in the quality manual:

c) a description of the interaction between the processes of the quality management system.

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then I presume in this high level document you wouldn't (taking the least popular option) include a reference to "E-mailing our brochures." Or have I misjudged you all totally?

Randy said:

Yay for Brad

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Yay for Randy and your usual non partisan contribution to intelligent debate. As you can see I have returned from my vacation full of the joys of spring!

I had hoped people would be moving the thread on to some assessment of significance and business risk.

We are the people who are supposedly driving quality forward and talking to senior managers about strategic approaches to quality.

It seems we can't even grasp the pareto principle.