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venkatesan
Non confomance may come because of so many causess for exmpl by MAN, MACHINE METHEODE, MATERIALS,MEASUREMENT AND ENVIRONMENT. These problems can find by usung the WHY WHY ANALYSIS.
Informational Nonconformances and Defects - Operator Error, System Error, or both?
- Thread starter Mike S.
- Start date
charanjit singh
Involved In Discussions
You are right; operator error does exist like any other human error due to umpteen people involved the process chain. I don't recollect Deming's figure but I know from experience that a large percentage of non-conformities can be attributed to deficiencies in system design and/or implementation (by people other than the operator).
I may quote a parallel example here. Some 35 years back in a US Army document I came across an analysis of causes of equipment failure - around 42 % was attributed to Design deficiencies and approximately 30 % to Manufacturing - of which operator's contribution was a single digit!
I may quote a parallel example here. Some 35 years back in a US Army document I came across an analysis of causes of equipment failure - around 42 % was attributed to Design deficiencies and approximately 30 % to Manufacturing - of which operator's contribution was a single digit!
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qualityboi
Neither, in the end all errors are the result of management, either not putting in a good system or not applying the appropriate amount of training, corretive action or good choices in choosing operators..
If you know of a method of choosing operators that always eliminates ones who might make mistakes, you should share it with us.
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sfkevin
I have to go with the 80/20 rule here. Are systems is in growth and change and management tries to get the info out but some are not in the loop.
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JaneB
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JaneB
I didn't vote, because I didn't care for the wording of assigning 'fault' which is too close to blame. I know it might sound picky or hairsplitting, but I feel strongly about avoiding it - I'd rather talk about cause/root cause.
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I prefer to not get wrapped around the axle over the politically correct benefits of the word “cause” vs. the word “fault”. My choice of the word “fault” years ago when I wrote the question was not intended to be persecutory, especially toward rank-and-file individuals, whom I am making the point about usually not being at fault – or being the root cause.
Webster says fault is “responsibility for wrongdoing or failure” and cause is “a reason for an action or condition”. I think either word fits the context of the question.
Let’s face it, if you crash your car into your garage door backing out in the morning someone is either “at fault” or is “the root cause” of the crash, and a change of terminology isn’t likely to make you feel a whole lot better either way!
Webster says fault is “responsibility for wrongdoing or failure” and cause is “a reason for an action or condition”. I think either word fits the context of the question.
Let’s face it, if you crash your car into your garage door backing out in the morning someone is either “at fault” or is “the root cause” of the crash, and a change of terminology isn’t likely to make you feel a whole lot better either way!
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JaneB
Changing terminology? No, it won't help you feel better.
But consider how differently you might react if the reason given to you by your son/daughter/partner was:
- not bothering to drive carefully
- a rearview window was dirty and they couldn't see clearly
- the rising sun shone in their eyes and dazzled them
- their child screamed in terror just as they were backing out & they lost concentration for a second
- the mirror had been broken off (by someone else) and they couldn't use it
- the car brake malfunctioned because it wasn't fixed properly
- that was a new door fitted yesterday and they didn't know it was there
- it was a completely new car/someone else's they hadn't driven before.
I know it might sound a bit hairsplitting, but a purely simplistic 'really doesn't matter' view of root cause is too simplistic. But I take all your other points just fine
These polls come back to haunt one! 
I don’t know where that one came from, or why you felt the need to say it, but I think I’m just gonna move on…
