CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) Discussions are Getting Out of Hand

Bev D said:

I wish it were only auditor...it han't even been one registrar or one industry, but time and time again...

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Did you have any input on the registrar selection and auditor assignment in all of these cases?

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

skappesser said:

I am not understanding this seemingly insensitive reply from a moderator(?) Rezzi felt crushed enough to apologize for asking questions! Please someone tell me what am I missing?

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I really don't think anyone needs to apologize, and I really don't think you are missing something. The point is that this is one of the most debated (CAPA) issues from Registrars and Companies. We all know that there are so many different opinions on this subject that I doubt that this would be conclusive. Kinda like Religion and Politics. Stay away from these topics.

skappesser said:

People want to and need to learn. Does this forum and its moderators tolerate and cultivate youth and inexperience? Were we not all young once and asking elementary questions to build our knowledge?

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That is why the cove is here to help people that might be lacking some of the practical experiences. Yes, we all were young at one point in our careers and have learned through asking "elementary questions." In my opinion.

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Rezzi said:

Dear Greg,
I'm so sorry. Its all my fault to start this thread. Is it possible to take this thread back. I was trying to express my dislike of "I'm right-you're wrong" kind of discussions but appearantly I wasn't aware of that I actually have contributed to one more so please if you are abale as a moderator to stop this tread pls do so.

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Rezzi,

PLEASE do not take my comments as a 'black mark' against YOU. I apologise if it comes across this way. My reasons are founded in the wording of the standard and the constant battle we have, at the cove, with semantics and registrars that think they know how someone should run their business. This site is for EVERYONE and I would never (and the other moderators are the same) remove someone's post for asking a genuine question. Feel free to ask anything you want and if you feel that I (or anyone else) am discriminating then let us know because it is not now and never will be our intent.

Enjoy the cove for its knowledge and friendship.

skappesser said:

I am not understanding this seemingly insensitive reply from a moderator(?) Rezzi felt crushed enough to apologize for asking questions! Please someone tell me what am I missing? People want to and need to learn. Does this forum and its moderators tolerate and cultivate youth and inexperience? Were we not all young once and asking elementary questions to build our knowledge?

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I did not mean to offend Rezzi, or anyone else. After reading my post I don't think I did but please read my repsonse to Rezzi. We, at the cove, respect everyone's questions and hope that we can ,in some small way, shed light on the mysteries of the Quality Field.

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Greg B said:

... constant battle we have, at the cove, with semantics and registrars that think they know how someone should run their business.

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I have said it before, and I will say it again. The Management System Conformity Assessment Sector is filled with moronic auditors that do a lot of damage with their archaic, myopic, micro-managing and close minded approach to assessing management systems. However, there are a lot of moronic implementers as well that do a huge disservice to the organizations they work for because they don't know how to run their own business. So, Greg, this is not a one-sided problem.

Sidney Vianna said:

Did you have any input on the registrar selection and auditor assignment in all of these cases?

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in some of the cases absolutely. and in those cases when the auditor exhibited consistent poor performance I requested (required?) a different auditor adn I woudl receive them. a move I never took lightly or without jsut cause...Certainly I disagreed with some findings, stated my case in the finding response and won once the finding went up the chain within the registrar...in some cases I was not the management rep and had only influence not authority and so I typically chose not take on those battles. (no need to pi$$ off both the auditor and the management rep, ya know)...

certainly we are in a position to change auditors ut not all management reps are strong enough to make this happen. not all management structures even care (as you are well aware) about the true state of their registration; some managment teams only wan tot ensure that the piece of paper stays on the wall so they don't fight...sad but too true. bad auditor + bad management = no one one wins.

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Sidney Vianna said:

I have said it before, and I will say it again. The Management System Conformity Assessment Sector is filled with moronic auditors that do a lot of damage with their archaic, myopic, micro-managing and close minded approach to assessing management systems. However, there are a lot of moronic implementers as well that do a huge disservice to the organizations they work for because they don't know how to run their own business. So, Greg, this is not a one-sided problem.

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no - it's definetely not one sided!

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

skappesser said:

I am not understanding this seemingly insensitive reply from a moderator(?) Rezzi felt crushed enough to apologize for asking questions! Please someone tell me what am I missing?

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Your not missing anything, skappesser. Sometimes tempers get a little heated - even the moderators make mistakes.

skappesser said:

People want to and need to learn. Does this forum and its moderators tolerate and cultivate youth and inexperience? ?

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Absolutely - that is what this site is all about - people helping people - young, old, experienced and unexperienced.

skappesser said:

Were we not all young once and asking elementary questions to build our knowledge?

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Not me - I was born older than dirt!

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

CarolX said:

Not me - I was born older than dirt!

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CarolX,

Age is a state of mind.

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Coury Ferguson said:

CarolX,

Age is a state of mind.

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As someone once said, "You're only as old as the person you're feeling."
Sounds like a George Burns saying but can't find the original.

Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

skappesser said:

During ISO audits at one of my previous employers, the auditor required documented objective evidence for PAs, and really liked the form we created for that. The form could be used for CAs or PAs. It helps to use tools like this to make the audit experience easier and more efficient for the auditor. Auditors appreciate efforts to ensure a value added, compliant process is not difficult to audit...

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I would suggest that a form like this helps the users do a more effective preventive action. That is the primary value. Whether or not it helps the auditor is a secondary issue.