Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion

Howard Atkins · Mar 14, 2004

Greg the OZ standard is OK.

These explanations are from ISO 9000:2000- this is the explanation of terms.
We all use ISO9000 so much for ISO 9001 that when we actually use 9000 we are confused.

Wes Bucey · Mar 14, 2004

Howard Atkins said:
Greg the OZ standard is OK.

These explanations are from ISO 9000:2000- this is the explanation of terms.
We all use ISO9000 so much for ISO 9001 that when we actually use 9000 we are confused.

I believe Howard is referring to this:
https://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=29280&ICS1=3&ICS2=120&ICS3=10
It certainly is a minor irritation that ISO charges extra just for the definitions of the words it uses in another document.

Greg B · Mar 14, 2004

Thanks Howard and Wes, :bonk:

I am back at work now and I have re-read the original post and seen my error
I have all of the usual standards in my bookshelf wityh my main ones being:

ISO19011 Guidelines for Quality and/or environemental MS auditing
4360:1999 Risk Management
ISO9001:2000 QMS - Requirements
HB90.0:2000 - ISO 9001 Comparison 2000 vs 1994
ISO 9004:2000 - QMS Guidelines...
ISO900:2000 - QMS Fundumanetals & Vocabulary

It has been a while since I have opened many of them. I am going to peruse them today to remind me of their wisdom.

Greg B

jaimezepeda · Oct 18, 2004

Has a consensus been reached?

I read through this thread for the first time today. I am in the middle of updating our corrective action procedure and our preventive action procedure. I decided to include a definition of each in the procedures as well as some examples to help illustrate what each procedure's intent is.

I was pleased to learn how over the years these topic has generated much interest among fellow Covers.

Jaime

nunogvieira · Oct 22, 2004

Is it really Preventive?

I've been reading the different messages and I agree with the general definition from Corrective Actions after a problem, Preventive Actions before a problem. Nevertheless, I have one doubt. An corrective action can be transformed in a preventive action?
An example, I had a problem in one production line of a model, I prepared an action plan with corrective actions. I confirmed the eficiency of the actions and some time later I decided to apply similar actions in another product production line to avois having the same problem.
I've heard different opinions about this, includint auditors and they don't agree between them. One says it's preventive - the problem never happened in the new lines. Others say that this is an case of generalizing corrective actions.

What do you think?

Claes Gefvenberg · Oct 23, 2004

Hello Nuno, and welcome to the Cove :bigwave:

(I got your message btw).

nunogvieira said:
I've heard different opinions about this, includint auditors and they don't agree between them. One says it's preventive - the problem never happened in the new lines. Others say that this is an case of generalizing corrective actions.

What do you think?

Good question :agree1:

I think that if there ever was a gray area between preventive and corrective actions, you just hit it... As you say there are (lots) of opinions about this, but the main concern is of course to get the job done.

Interestingly enough, ISO 9004:2000 discusses loss prevention under clause 8.5.3, and one of the aspects it advices us to take into account is - Lessons learned from past experience. I would say that your example comes pretty close.

/Claes

DAUDI NAKASALA · Nov 10, 2004

Re:capa "two Procedures,or One Procedure?"

CAPA is a Quality subsystem with two Quality management loops

ROACTIVE(Preventive),and Corrective loop(REACTIVE LOOP).One LOOP focuses on things that have gone wrong,the other loop focuses on things that may go wrong if not attended to.CA:After the fact.PA:before the fact.Documentation should go from: CAPA policy,process procedures,to records.Suppliers to the system will depend on the organization.
I hope this helps.
Daudi.

John LeBlanc said:
This is my first posting, as I just "stumbled" upon your site this week. Knowing that you probably have covered this in the past, I am looking for help in drawing the distinction between corrective action and preventive action. Our organization (engineering in the telephony industry) uses process documents and thus has flow charts within each of our process documents. We have just been advised that we need to insert a (new) Corrective & Preventive section into each of our processes.I want to take the approach that tells them to look at the flow chart. What can go wrong? What do you do to "fix" it when it does? (Corrective) Once you have "fixed" it, what measures do you take to stop it from happening again? (Preventive)
Does this make sense? Is it consistent with the ISO9000 standard? (We are registered to 9001) Is it too simple an approach?
Thanks.

------------------

Claes Gefvenberg · Nov 11, 2004

Welcome to the Cove Daudi :bigwave:

Good first post too...

/Claes

psavijay · Jan 3, 2005

Corrective action in Control Plan

:applause:

What is the meaning of Corrective action mentioned in the Control Plan

For Ex Take it as a Stamping Blanking Operation what may be the corrective action for Burr Control the control Mechanism is First Off , Last Off and Patrol Inspection Method anybody help me out here what ever mentioned by me in my WI is looking like corrections

Sidney Vianna · Jan 11, 2005

nunogvieira said:
I've been reading the different messages and I agree with the general definition from Corrective Actions after a problem, Preventive Actions before a problem. Nevertheless, I have one doubt. An corrective action can be transformed in a preventive action?
An example, I had a problem in one production line of a model, I prepared an action plan with corrective actions. I confirmed the eficiency of the actions and some time later I decided to apply similar actions in another product production line to avois having the same problem.
I've heard different opinions about this, includint auditors and they don't agree between them. One says it's preventive - the problem never happened in the new lines. Others say that this is an case of generalizing corrective actions.

What do you think?

Senhor Vieira, na minha opiniao, o Senhor tem toda a razao em considerar essas acoes como preventivas. Veja o penultimo paragrafo do documento disponivel no link https://isotc.iso.ch/livelink/livelink.exe/3634667/APG-ReviewNonconformity.doc?func=doc.Fetch&nodeid=3634667

Translation:

Mr. Vieira, in my opinion, you are absolutely correct in identifying such actions as preventive. Check the second to the last paragraph in the document available at https://isotc.iso.ch/livelink/livelink.exe/3634667/APG-ReviewNonconformity.doc?func=doc.Fetch&nodeid=3634667

Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion

Howard Atkins

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Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit

Greg B

jaimezepeda

nunogvieira

Claes Gefvenberg

DAUDI NAKASALA

Claes Gefvenberg

psavijay

Sidney Vianna

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