Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

If, according to ISO 9000 definition, we can request corrective actions against undesirable situations, are we opening a can of worms? Having stupid co-workers is an undesirable situation. Can we truly prevent it from recurring?

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

Sidney Vianna said:

If, according to ISO 9000 definition, we can request corrective actions against undesirable situations, are we opening a can of worms?

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In my view, canned worms are undesirable. I usually treat them as nonconforming product and make sure that they're identified and controlled to prevent unintended opening.

Fortunately ISO 9001 doesn't require us to take corrective actions on undesirable situations. It actually doesn't require us to take corrective action on all nonconformities either.

Sidney Vianna said:

Having stupid co-workers is an undesirable situation. Can we truly prevent it from recurring?

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If the stupid coworkers are incompetent, then it would also be a nonconformity. The organization would be required to provide training (or take other actions) to ensure competence.

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

I've always determined the 'undesirable situation' as being for process requirements that don't fit into the traditional 'quality' requirements. examples of this are cycle times that are too long for manufacturing or design processes, inordinate amount of non-value-add activity, poor OEE, etc. These aren't product related situations, but they certainly have performance impact.

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

Bev D said:

I've always determined the 'undesirable situation' as being for processes that don't the 'quality' requirements.

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I'm sure you missed something (a word or phrase) that makes it incomprehensible.

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

samsung said:

I'm sure you missed something (a word or phrase) that makes it incomprehensible.

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ah yes. my brain thought faster than my fingers could type. it is corrected now. see above.

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

So can i have use 1 Corrective and Preventive Action Report form or i need to separate them?

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

Chaku said:

So can i have use 1 Corrective and Preventive Action Report form or i need to separate them?

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Welcome to the Cove.

Both are acceptable. Choose the method that you or your organization is comfortable with. From my experience, problems often arise due to the poor design of the form or people not knowing how to use it properly rather than whether it can be combined.

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

Sidney Vianna said:

If, according to ISO 9000 definition, we can request corrective actions against undesirable situations, are we opening a can of worms?

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The standard clearly uses the "undesirable situation" and "potential undesirable situation" phrases, so why "if"? The can should be open and the worms should be all over. The purpose of the system is to rid us of em worms, not keep em in the can.

Trouble is that many potential and real undesirable situations can be spotted by knowledgeable employees, specially during the early stages of a working system. This can result in a ballooning of action requests, and eventual neglect of the system by those in the team that need it the most. This, itself, is an undesirable situation.

I don't think that requests for action should be discouraged. Instead, an indispensable part of any good CAPA system is to be able to prioritize such requests and to also be able to close out requests either without action or for later review when they have a low priority. We've been struggling with this since day one, but little by little, the CI is working on our CAPA system.

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

Thanks. am really getting light

Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discus

The real issue, and probably the only part everyone agrees on, is that preventing problems is a good thing. If it happens, and you prevent it from happening again (corrective action) that is a good thing. If you prevent a potential problem from happening in the first place (preventive action), that is even better. Focus on preventing and solving root causes, and focus less on the label you put on it.