How to explain deliberate sabotage?

BradM · Nov 15, 2021

I expect to be notified the next time there is an awesome discussion going on that I missed.

LOL!!

What is the policy/practice? Is one person allowed to pack up product and ship to the customer without any other inspection?
Is there not final inspection that occurs?
All the "bad" "rejected" parts, are these not quarantined/ disposed of better? (Note, this employee could have a key for access, granted that).

To me (just me...) there was a process failure that bad product was shipped to the customer. I would focus on that, and not worry about the employee with the attitude.

Sidney Vianna · Nov 15, 2021

Brakeman said:
The Quality in QMS is a adjective describes a management system that is done well, not a management system run by the Quality Department.

Actually the quality management system is a subset of the enterprise operational processes that deal with customer satisfaction and product conformity and integrity. It encompasses many processes above and beyond the ones "controlled by the quality department", for sure. But, in this context, quality is not an adjective.

Brakeman · Nov 15, 2021

Jim Wynne said:
Sorry, but that site is far from authoritative when it comes to etymology. The shoes-in-the-machines thing was debunked long ago.

8D originated as a method for reporting CA activities, not as a process. If you engage in a rational corrective action process, 8D can be used to report and record the efforts, but again, it's reporting method, not a process. It seems particularly unsuitable for the present situation.

So how exactly was it "Debunked"? As a Francophone I understand both the definition of Sabot and the history of textile worker uprisings in Europe, I'd really like to know how they disproved the '1700 and 1800's woodcuts of workers beating the machinery with their shoes" I'm curious how they would suddenly know that the accounts are false. I think the debunkers need debunking, since at best they couldn't confirm it.

As for the 8D being just a reporting form, I must admit I'm taken aback by this, as each step (short of the congrat's section that irks me) is a solid step of investigation.

From the ASQ site:
The 8D problem solving model establishes a permanent corrective action based on statistical analysis of the problem and focuses on the origin of the problem by determining its root causes. Although it originally comprised eight stages, or disciplines, the eight disciplines system was later augmented by an initial planning stage.

HOW TO USE THE 8D APPROACH

D0: Plan - Plan for solving the problem and determine the prerequisites.
D1: Use a team - Select and establish a team of people with product/process knowledge.
D2: Define and describe the problem - Specify the problem by identifying in quantifiable terms the who, what, where, when, why, how, and how many (5W2H) for the problem.
D3: Develop interim containment plan; implement and verify interim actions - Define and implement containment actions to isolate the problem from any customer.
D4: Determine, identify, and verify root causes and escape points - Identify all applicable causes that could explain why the problem occurred. Also identify why the problem was not noticed at the time it occurred. All causes shall be verified or proved, not determined by fuzzy brainstorming. One can use 5 Whys and cause and effect diagrams to map causes against the effect or problem identified.
D5: Choose and verify permanent corrections (PCs) for problem/nonconformity - Through preproduction programs, quantitatively confirm that the selected correction will resolve the problem for the customer.
D6: Implement and validate corrective actions - Define and implement the best corrective actions (CA).
D7: Take preventive measures - Modify the management systems, operation systems, practices, and procedures to prevent recurrence of this and all similar problems.
D8: Congratulate your team - Recognize the collective efforts of the team. The team needs to be formally thanked by the organization

Nowhere does it even mention a form.

Brakeman · Nov 15, 2021

Sidney Vianna said:
Actually the quality management system is a subset of the enterprise operational processes that deal with customer satisfaction and product conformity and integrity. It encompasses many processes above and beyond the ones "controlled by the quality department", for sure. But, in this context, quality is not an adjective.

Where is your evidence for this claim that it is a sub-set?

Here are the Quality Management principles By ISO. Do any of these look subsetted to you?

https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100080.pdf

Sidney Vianna · Nov 15, 2021

Brakeman said:
Where is your evidence for this claim that it is a sub-set?

Brakeman · Nov 15, 2021

Sidney Vianna said:
View attachment 28402

Lots of things are "part" of a whole organization but not subsetted to only apply to parts of an organization. For instance, The laws and the legal system compliance are "part" of the organization's responsibilities and goals and this is reflected within the QMS, but common sense says there isn't a department within the company that doesn't have to follow the law. If you would actually read the Quality Management principles as stated by the ISO team and see that they are universal throughout the organization, then you could understand that the system to manage the organization principles is not sub-setted correctly to just the departments that "Quality Managers can influence/control. The first half of the ISO9001 standard should be a hint to that, as they focus on the top levels of a company, not the quality department.

Randy · Nov 15, 2021

Brakeman said:
Lots of things are "part" of a whole organization but not subsetted to only apply to parts of an organization. For instance, The laws and the legal system compliance are "part" of the organization's responsibilities and goals and this is reflected within the QMS, but common sense says there isn't a department within the company that doesn't have to follow the law. If you would actually read the Quality Management principles as stated by the ISO team and see that they are universal throughout the organization, then you could understand that the system to manage the organization principles is not sub-setted correctly to just the departments that "Quality Managers can influence/control. The first half of the ISO9001 standard should be a hint to that, as they focus on the top levels of a company, not the quality department.

Uh, very good Brakeman, but keep it business and you need to accept that a lot of folks here might have 10, 15, 20 even 30 years experience with ISO standards and have been a "part" or member of the "ISO team" so let's not be personal. You yourself are just a part of the whole of whatever as am I, also the reference provided is actual ISO material many people have never taken the "time to read"

Sidney Vianna · Nov 15, 2021

Let it be. Sometimes people believe they were blessed with an epiphany and nobody can convince them otherwise. But, thinking minds would like to know: if quality management system means a management system of high caliber, what would an environmental management system be? :naughty:

Randy · Nov 15, 2021

Sidney Vianna said:
Let it be. Sometimes people believe they were blessed with an epiphany and nobody can convince them otherwise. But, thinking minds would like to know: if quality management system means a management system of high caliber, what would an environmental management system be?

Yep, good thought

BradM · Nov 16, 2021

Might I suggest... let's get back on topic and to the original posters query.

Azaarus, have you decided on a course of action? How is this going?

How to explain deliberate sabotage?

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