QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Helmut Jilling said:

Well, I think I am very "up" on new ISO thinking and styles, and just finished a 50 page quality manual for a small ISO 9001 company. It is based on ISO 9004, not ISO 9001, and I am very pleased with the results. Since I encourage my clients to read and use ISO 9004, it sort of forces them to use it, because it is right in theiir manual. It also greatly reduces the number of pages we devote to procedures, because most of what they need is in the manual.

I'll bet the total number of documents and pages in my system will be less than in your system, even though the manual has more pages. Why focusing on pages seems important is beyond me. Focus on content and useful information, instead.

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Helmut,

Agreed, some manuals specify the system and most manuals describe the system. The latter is usually much shorter than the former.

John

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Focusing on content and "useful" information is what I did, as compared to "copy/paste" ISO9001 into a manual and make a Title page for every section. Before I even started working on the content.

I was able to take a 38 page document down to 20 pages by removing this "bloat"(title pages and what have you). Then by complying with ISO9001, just not copy/pasting the sections of it, I was able to effectively consolidate without losing purpose.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

rfjuice said:

Focusing on content and "useful" information is what I did, as compared to "copy/paste" ISO9001 into a manual and make a Title page for every section. Before I even started working on the content.

I was able to take a 38 page document down to 20 pages by removing this "bloat"(title pages and what have you). Then by complying with ISO9001, just not copy/pasting the sections of it, I was able to effectively consolidate without losing purpose.

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Well, clearly, just doing copy and paste is not something you should pay a consultant for. When I worked with ISO 9004 as a base, I reworked every paragraph, but left most of it in. There is a lot of good content. I simply suggest that focus on content matters. Number of pages does not matter and should not be a goal.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Helmut Jilling said:

focus on content matters.

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Yes. That's the heart of it.

Helmut Jilling said:

Number of pages does not matter and should not be a goal.

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I aim for the fewest needed, so to some extent I do focus on 'number of pages' because shorter is almost invariably better.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Interesting. All my 50 page manuals are in a cupboard somewhere.
My QPM is 2 pages and my processes are flowed in front of my face.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Helmut Jilling said:

I simply suggest that focus on content matters. Number of pages does not matter and should not be a goal.

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rfjuice said:

Focusing on content and "useful" information is what I did,

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Figured I'd highlight that comment, since you didn't read it. I'm not designing the manual around the fewest number of pages possible. I'm just removing the unnecessary stuff and am keeping everything on point as best as I can.

If I was going for the minimum, the manual wouldn't be at 13 pages. It would be in the 4-6 range including cover sheet. Its just 35+ pages is a bit much for a simple manual for ISO9001:2008.

The above is my own determined opinion and is surely open to any and all objections, approval, and criticism.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

4 pages? I do not see how any operation of a sizable nature could do that, unless, as has been said before, there were many references to other source material. The manual I produced for my company is 130 pages. It covers a lot of material, obviously, but there are a lot of processes to address.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

EWHome1 said:

4 pages? I do not see how any operation of a sizable nature could do that, unless, as has been said before, there were many references to other source material. The manual I produced for my company is 130 pages. It covers a lot of material, obviously, but there are a lot of processes to address.

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It can be done on a single sheet of paper regardless of organization size.

130 pages?:mg: Serious overkill for what 4.2.2 asks to be in a manual.

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

dianel said:

my processes are flowed in front of my face.

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Err... what do you actually mean here?

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

This particular manual is the first for a 50-some year old privately-owned company. My task was not to conform to ISO, but to attempt to begin getting this organization into the modern era of documentation. It covers everything from soup to nuts; various chapters can be pulled out to stand on their own
I am not trained in the QA discipline, but have learned it all the hard way, by living it. That is why I study this forum, to learn how things should be done in QA documentation and implementation. Re-inventing my career with this organization, for the third time, so I can stay employed in a field I enjoy, working with people I enjoy, and hopefully retiring with something other than Social in-Security.