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winchm
Although I am restricted in uploading SW this does sound like a very good package - I'll suggest to my management for use in the Quality group. 
What Flowchart Software Do You Use for Procedures and other Documentation?
John,
I am a "Demingite." Can you provide me with a reference to Dr. Deming's teachings and/or writings where he mentions or recommends the use of "Deployment Flowcharts?"
All I know is that is was Dr. Myron Tribus who popularized the use of these charts.
Thanks in advance.
Stijloor.
Sure Myron Tribus made deployment flowcharting popular in the USA but I was referring to one of Dr Deming's books. I remember seeing a swimlane flowchart on page 28 or so of either Out of the Crisis or The New Economics.
Your post prompted me to email my friend to whom I had lent part of my business book library. I will update this post when he either returns the two books or gives me the exact page number and book title.
Meanwhile here is a fair-use quote from the Jan 98 edition of Quality Digest (Google this to avoid copyright infringement with a link here) where Ron Cordes (who runs CFM the owner of TeamFlow) reported on the history of process flowcharting:
"Deming's work at Komatsu Tractor Co. inspired a new flowchart that depicted team members across the top, with each process step aligned vertically under the team member or members working on it. Process steps were connected by arrows, as in ordinary flowcharts, to indicate process flow. The Japanese term for this concept, which roughly translates into "management across the functions" was Anglicized into "cross-functional management.""
Do you have access to any records of Dr Deming's work with Komatsu?
Your post prompted me to email my friend to whom I had lent part of my business book library. I will update this post when he either returns the two books or gives me the exact page number and book title.
Meanwhile here is a fair-use quote from the Jan 98 edition of Quality Digest (Google this to avoid copyright infringement with a link here) where Ron Cordes (who runs CFM the owner of TeamFlow) reported on the history of process flowcharting:
"Deming's work at Komatsu Tractor Co. inspired a new flowchart that depicted team members across the top, with each process step aligned vertically under the team member or members working on it. Process steps were connected by arrows, as in ordinary flowcharts, to indicate process flow. The Japanese term for this concept, which roughly translates into "management across the functions" was Anglicized into "cross-functional management.""
Do you have access to any records of Dr Deming's work with Komatsu?
It was pointed out to me that there is a possible
Quid_pro_quo as the TeamFlow company uses a chart on their web site as an example and attribute it to your company with your company information. Readers here pointed out the connection to me and I do want to ensure relationships are clear to readers here as is required in the TOS.Personally I have never used TeamFlow so I can not give an objective evaluation myself. I have used SmartDraw (my favourite), Visio, Micrografx Flowcharter, Winflow, ConceptDraw, and several others, not to mention oldies for the Mac platform like MacFlow (we're talking the 1980's here), TopDown, and the newer Flowchart Maker. I have even seen smaller companies use Microsoft's Powerpoint and Word to do excellent flow charts. Neither is appropriate for flow charts, in my opinion (well, one can do quite a lot with Powerpoint), but that's where a company has to make a choice as to whether or not its worth it to buy flow charting software. For years I have recommended SmartDraw (for PC companies) and I still do. Of course with the Macs running Windows (I use Parallels) these days, buying Windows software isn't an issue for most Mac people.
As devils advocate, having used flow charts for about as long as you, and in large companies including Harley-Davidson, BorgWarner and Motorola (to name a few) way back in the 1990's, a blanket statement referencing time (especially 2 hours) isn't a 'real' picture. The time it takes depends upon the process complexity, the level of knowledge of the process by participants, and the number of people involved (3 significant factors of several). Having a 'process expert' can help, particularly with training, but that isn't always feasible (typically a cost issue). My opinion is doing process flow charts isn't rocket science. It has always been more of an issue of teaching someone the concepts of flow charting to begin with than a specific software package in the same sense that an APQP software package that does integrated, linked process flow charts, process FMEAs and control plans isn't going to help a person do anything if they don't know anything about the APQP process and how to do each of the documents without software.
As was noted by someone in another post, I'm not sure how Dr. Deming's teachings and philosophy comes into play in this. Feel free to explain the connection. I'm not sure how seeing a swimlane flowchart on page 28 or so of either Out of the Crisis or The New Economics relates to the flow chart software company other than that the company makes flow charting software and Dr. Deming used a type of flow chart, other than that the company may internally embrace Dr. Deming's concepts and philosophies.
As to the software using Oracle databases, I'm not sure this is a significant aspect to the typical user whose interest is usually in the front end interface.
This thread is over 100 pages in length, so I won't go on. I feel obligated to post this because, as I mentioned, the connection was pointed out to me by people here.
I can not say out of the top of my head. It would be interesting to find out. I will certainly do some research.
Stijloor.
Although I am restricted in uploading SW this does sound like a very good package - I'll suggest to my management for use in the Quality group.
I recommend that you obtain the free download and try it for up to 30 days before you buy it so you can make sure that TF is exactly right for you.
John,
Here are the results of my quick "research" on deployment flow charts supposedly attributed to Dr. Deming.
In his book: "Out of the Crisis", Dr. Deming makes 2 references to flow diagrams: Page 4 and Page 87.
No mention of "Deployment Flow Charts."
On Page 86, Dr. Deming graciously thanks Dr. Phyllis Sobo for her help on "Plan for Action."
In his book: "The New Economics for Industry, Government, Education - 2nd Edition", Page 21, Fig #4, Dr. Deming shows a chart.
Its caption reads: "This is figure #3 redrawn by Dr. Myron Tribus as a deployment flowchart."
So to attribute the great Teacher for the development of Deployment Flowcharts is incorrect.
I hope this clarifies.
Stijloor.
Marc,
Deming? That's a point that I raised. I believe that one is clarified as well.
Stijloor.
Let us now get back on topic. This is a very old thread which was started in 2001 which gets resurrected now and again. Further posts, other than any responses John may have per decorum considering the recent posts, should get back to the original post topic: What Flowchart Software Do You Use for Procedures and other Documentation?
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