Is a Training Matrix Enough to cover ISO requirements?

Caster · Oct 16, 2007

Randy said:
Not too, too long ago I again asked an auditee "How do you define competence?" and to say the look I got was the typical Deer-in-the-headlights would be an understatement

Randy

Here's a freebie from my old boss.

Helping them understand training vs competence.

People get it every time.

"Would you prefer your teen age daughter to have sex education training or should she be competent"?

The "deer eyes" get focused real fast when its put that way.

Randy · Oct 16, 2007

Caster said:
Randy

Here's a freebie from my old boss.

Helping them understand training vs competence.

People get it every time.

"Would you prefer your teen age daughter to have sex education training or should she be competent"?

The "deer eyes" get focused real fast when its put that way.

This is great and I'm gonna start using it :lmao:

OK, you're really somebody cool that's hiding his identity from us aren't you?

RoxaneB · Oct 17, 2007

hjilling said:
I have seen a lot of matrices which show the needed skills, and scores to indicate level of competence. However, the actual evidence to back it up, and sign-offs, etc. is usually in the employee training files.

Yes and I believe that is what I alluded to. Sign-offs are typically retained in Training Files to demonstrate qualifications, but competency records may be off limits to internal auditors due to confidentiality reasons. At this point, I typically call out an employee name and ask for the date of their last assessment and the results (i.e., competent or not). If not, we ask if an action plan has been established to re-attain competency.

RoxaneB · Oct 17, 2007

hjilling said:
I like the first two; I would be careful with the third one. It is common to find one or two individuals with marginal competencies in even competent groups. I might even say it is likely. Few companies measure processes so well as to be able to identify individual weaknesses within a group.

Further, we must recognize that even "A" class players, have some skills which fall into "B" or "C" levels. Generic methods cannot ferret out those weaknesses.

Higher level indicators can be used as the first step in highlighting areas for improvement. We have a KPI tree that essentials shows the connections between objectives, projects, KPIs (at company, department, crew, and individual levels as appropriate). The department/crew KPI is a great way to show how a department is doing and how a crew contributes to the department results. Tie this in with supervisor assessments and the results and competency evaluations are aligned nicely.

Chelsea - 2009 · Oct 25, 2007

Along these same lines, kind of, the current discussion with our quality team is training files. I was advised by an auditor at a training class on AS9100 auditing that customarily in a training file there is a job description with whatever requirements are necessary for an individual to have the job, in correlation with this document there is a copy of those requirements. (e.g. if the requirements say an engineering degree is required then a copy of the persons diploma is inserted.) Is this something that a lot of companies do or was this person telling me something that really I don't need to do. Is it a good idea to do this or a waste of time? Granted, I know this won't cover the training portion of the standard but more the "records of education" portion? :frust:

Someone PLEASE help! Thanks!

RoxaneB · Oct 25, 2007

For the longest time my organization did not have job descriptions and it was not a problem. But we did state in our documentations what the responsibilities were of personnel and had a clear training matrix outlining who needed to know which documents.

AndyN · Oct 25, 2007

Chelsea said:
Along these same lines, kind of, the current discussion with our quality team is training files. I was advised by an auditor at a training class on AS9100 auditing that customarily in a training file there is a job description with whatever requirements are necessary for an individual to have the job, in correlation with this document there is a copy of those requirements. (e.g. if the requirements say an engineering degree is required then a copy of the persons diploma is inserted.) Is this something that a lot of companies do or was this person telling me something that really I don't need to do. Is it a good idea to do this or a waste of time? Granted, I know this won't cover the training portion of the standard but more the "records of education" portion? Someone PLEASE help! Thanks!

It depends on what your auditor means by 'customarily'...... He may have seen that happen, but it can be done a number of other ways too. Certainly, it's important that if a position requires certain qualifications/training/education, the company would be foolish not to verify that the person had that qualification etc and keep appropriate records.

But as for where/how it's filed, it's pretty much up to you, as long as it's effective. It sounds to be his paradigm was how his auditees had satisfied him, not how the system might work.......

Jim Wynne · Oct 25, 2007

AndyN said:
It depends on what your auditor means by 'customarily'...... He may have seen that happen, but it can be done a number of other ways too. Certainly, it's important that if a position requires certain qualifications/training/education, the company would be foolish not to verify that the person had that qualification etc and keep appropriate records.

But as for where/how it's filed, it's pretty much up to you, as long as it's effective. It sounds to be his paradigm was how his auditees had satisfied him, not how the system might work.......

I think that sometimes companies rethink their filing strategies in order to make things easier to find for auditing purposes. This typically happens when a regsitrar or customer auditor wants to see some sort of records or other documentary evidence, and it's scattered amongst different filing cabinets, perhaps in different parts of the building. It boils down to whether or not doing something as an auditor expects it to be done is worth the effort needed to do it that way. If an auditor wants to see somethingvand it takes some time to get it, that's his problem so long as you can produce it.

Chelsea - 2009 · Oct 25, 2007

I guess my main concern was weather or not it was necessary in order to show the records of education or if it completely useless to show that this way. If there is a better way I'm open for suggestions. Thanks for the replies.

AndyN · Oct 25, 2007

Chelsea said:
I guess my main concern was weather or not it was necessary in order to show the records of education or if it completely useless to show that this way. If there is a better way I'm open for suggestions. Thanks for the replies.

If you are placing someone a job, based on their meeting some educational requirements, like a BS in Engineering, tec. then it is fairly reasonable to have some evidence - like a copy of their degree - on file, somewhere........It has been known for people to make claims of education but never have them substantiated.:mg:

Is a Training Matrix Enough to cover ISO requirements?

Caster

An Early Cover

Randy

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller

Chelsea - 2009

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller

AndyN

Moved On

Jim Wynne

Chelsea - 2009

AndyN

Moved On

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