Mikey324
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Do people really get business solely from waving a shiny flag and showing a certificate??
Choosing a Registrar - Registrar Recommendations
- Thread starter Marc
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Do people really get business solely from waving a shiny flag and showing a certificate??
Actually one of the biggest potential benefit of certification is the possible avoidance of multiple, inconsistent and disruptive customer audits.
If anything, 2nd-party audits increased after ISO 9001, et al. It certainly never served as a deterrent.
Mikey324
Quite Involved in Discussions
I have seen no decrease in 2nd party audits, myself or from others I know in the industry. It seems like more people misinterpreted the 2nd party audit section, thinking the intent was to create a massive 2nd party audit task force. We get customer audits regularly, even with those who gave us 100% quality and delivery scores. Why I ask? "Because the 2nd party audit requirement says we have to"....
30 years ago when ISO 9001 was just a few years old and the concept of accreditation of management system certification bodies was still in the very early stages, third party certification of quality systems against recognized standards was envisioned as a path to significantly reduce customer audits and improve confidence in the supply chains.
As I have been voicing (now for 20+ years) the commoditization of audits and certificates has meant many stakeholders don’t equate certification with increased confidence and decide to maintain or revert to extensive system audits of their direct suppliers. We should also remember that supplier audits vary tremendously in scope. Many second party auditors focus on process audits, not system audits. Against that there is very little recourse from the suppliers side.
Mikey324
Quite Involved in Discussions
We have a 2nd party audit process, but has triggers to initiate. If a supplier is 3rd party certified and are meeting quality and delivery performance targets, what value is there for me to go audit them? With great performance, their processes are most likely pretty effective. It would be taking time away from myself or audit team to go verify processes that are already supposedly varied by a 3rd party auditor. That just costs time and money.
I do agree with you, a certificate doesn't mean a great product is produced. That being the cause, I go back to my original question. What then is the value add by getting this certificate? If it doesn't build supplier confidence or prove a system capable of making and delivering a good product, what's the point? Just a box to check off as part of the supplier selection process?
With costs of certification continuing to rise, the ROI should as well. Would you keep any other service provider if their costs continued to rise, and the added value did not?
Generally not solely from it, but it can be necessary for some customers to even consider buying from you.
In some cases, it is just checking the box as part of the supplier selection process. I think it can also add a little confidence, but often not very much.
Yes, if the value provided is still greater than the cost and if I'm not aware of a better value replacement.
Mikey324
Quite Involved in Discussions
And therein lies my point.
If an organization sees no value and there is no contractual mandate, the only logical answer is to drop the cert. Based on the dwindling numbers of ISO 9001 certificates in the USA, I think many companies have made that call.
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