Finally got a proper quality job - now do I know enough to do it?

There are two extremes with careers, one where you know almost nothing and shouldn't be doing it yet, and then where you know so much you aren't being challenged anymore and will burn out. Try to stay closer to the second if possible.

Go in knowing you will learn some things along the way and I think that's normal. You may need to ask for help. That doesn't mean you arent good at auditing but how you leave the finished product matters.

TPMB4 said:

BTW which auditor training would you recommend, internal or lead auditor?

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The major difference between the two courses is the in depth coverage of the standard interpretation, which can lead to some of the driest PowerPoint presentations known to Man, Atacama-desert grade. Obviously, the intricacies of 3rd party auditing versus internal audits are covered.

As for the value of such training, in my experience (and I delivered many auditing courses, both accredited lead auditor and non accredited internal auditor versions) is the caliber and experience of the instructor. When I instructed such courses I would do my utmost effort to bring real life cases, relatable scenarios, so people would feel engaged.

If the instructor knows the material and even the body of knowledge well, but is not able to relate the issues at hand with day to day working situations, the course can be the longest and most boring course in the ISOsphere.

Good luck.

TPMB4 said:

I seriously do not have enough internal audit experience. I'm thinking I need a good book on it and indeed other matters. So what books on internal auditing and QA would you recommend?

Any advice? I need to succeed, which I will, but I'm not a confident guy so I like to understand things rather too in depth to compensate.

quickly once they get over this "don't want to frighten you off" stage. So I'm hoping someone on here can give a little bit of advice from experience.

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Can you tag along with some co-workers as an observer as they do some internal audits?

Then try to get assigned some of the easier audits and just get in there and do it!

I'm currently training an internal auditor team at a sister division that specializes in design - it's very entertaining.

The very nature of their professions makes getting them to approach matters in anything less than a complex manner a real challenge.

I spent a couple of months as a contractor at a large medical device manufacturer some five years ago, and the organization was virtually impenetrable when it came to who was the owner of any given issue, and who held the solution. Keep asking different people for their advice on who the trusty native guides are and where the paths through the jungle are located.

Sidney Vianna said:

As for the value of such training, in my experience (and I delivered many auditing courses, both accredited lead auditor and non accredited internal auditor versions) is the caliber and experience of the instructor. When I instructed such courses I would do my utmost effort to bring real life cases, relatable scenarios, so people would feel engaged.

If the instructor knows the material and even the body of knowledge well, but is not able to relate the issues at hand with day to day working situations, the course can be the longest and most boring course in the ISOsphere.

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Sidney is totally correct, you might end up with a slide flipper with nothing to fall back on and a "deer in the headlight" look if asked any real world questions or to elaborate. You might also get someone who has a great deal of background but lacks the ability to convey their body of knowledge into something coherent, understandable and useful. Both types abound in the training world in a more abundancy than the fleas, ticks or chiggers in my Arkansas back yard, and another slider flipper to boot.....I refer to type instructors as "Shake & Bake Experts".

Me? I've over 200 Lead Auditor courses under my belt a ton of internal ones along with a bunch of other ISO related training courses I wrote, modified and/or delivered. I delivered my last course in 2016 when it was evident that flipping slides, talking in a monotone and having the personality of a dust mite was good enough to deliver material......But that's me and my private opinion.

Unless you're a tad on that masochistic side, have unlimited time on your hands and/or someone says "Ya gotta" don't do a Lead, more often than not the average Internal course is even overkill, but go with one...........Again, that's just me and my opinion.

normzone said:

I'm currently training an internal auditor team at a sister division that specializes in design - it's very entertaining.

The very nature of their professions makes getting them to approach matters in anything less than a complex manner a real challenge.

I spent a couple of months as a contractor at a large medical device manufacturer some five years ago, and the organization was virtually impenetrable when it came to who was the owner of any given issue, and who held the solution. Keep asking different people for their advice on who the trusty native guides are and where the paths through the jungle are located.

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Not too, too many years back I created an 8 hour, publicly offered course on the then 9001-7.3 Design & Development. Well received and well sold until the 2015 rev came out. (And I got a pretty good bonus as well)

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but Randy, if you ever retire, I'd love to see you do a series of courses on dealing with bad registrar auditors, effective internal auditing, etc. Crusty Marine with decades of experience and straight-shooting demeanor puts it out there. It would be entertaining and informative both.

Mike S. said:

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but Randy, if you ever retire, I'd love to see you do a series of courses on dealing with bad registrar auditors, effective internal auditing, etc. Crusty Marine with decades of experience and straight-shooting demeanor puts it out there. It would be entertaining and informative both.

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Like a couple others in here I've been at it a couple decades now. A few folks I've run into have told me to compile stuff and put it into a lighthearted book. It's kinda like my old law enforcement career (thank goodness there were no bodycams & cellphones 50 years ago), write it down and publish it...........My big problem Novel-Fiction-SciFi-Comedy-History-Historical Fiction and so on? I wouldn't know where to start except........."There I was..."

Randy said:

Like a couple others in here I've been at it a couple decades now. A few folks I've run into have told me to compile stuff and put it into a lighthearted book. It's kinda like my old law enforcement career (thank goodness there were no bodycams & cellphones 50 years ago), write it down and publish it...........My big problem Novel-Fiction-SciFi-Comedy-History-Historical Fiction and so on? I wouldn't know where to start except........."There I was..."

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You draft it, I'll sign an NDA and edit.

Jen Kirley said:

Congratulations TPMB4!

It is too early to get enough out of a Lead Auditor course. I often recommend the Cochran books ISO 9001:2015 In Plain English and Internal Auditing in Plain English because I think they are very good at explaining the subjects at the early user's preferred pace. They are available used or new. I have mine on Kindle as well as a hard copy of one to share with my peers at work.

Quality Assurance is an enormous subject. So much of it is topic specific. As you have questions about a particular subject we would be happy to answer, or in my case usually point you to reputable reading material.

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I have the iso 9001 book on kindle but haven't got the cochrane auditing book yet. The iso one is a good handholding book on it. I've got the 2008 revision by another author that's a similar vein but perhaps not at good. I got the paper one in that,