GM says no more tailpipe emissions by 2035, carbon neutrality by 2040

dwperron

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Why? They don't have electricity grids in rural areas?

Yes they do have electrical grids.
The Rural Electrification Act of 1936 powered that infrastructure.
If you wait for private industry to set up charging stations it will be like high speed internet - unavailable in low density (low profit) areas.
We only had telephone service everywhere because of government mandates.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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And why batteries in the first place. How about hydrogen / oxygen fuel cells?

That's quite a ways off when measured against 400 mile range.
I've worked in that industry...and SOFC powered cars are still about 10 years off...and have been for the last 20 years.
Cogen is in place already...and some prohibitively expensive Backup power is in place (re: Bloom Box, etc.).
The sheer volume of H2 or other HC needed to hit 400 miles is hard to store for mobile

FWIW, SOFC/PEM/MCFC etc. all also include processing with some fairly nasty stuff (MEK, Xylenes, Toluene, organic burnoff, etc.) Hard to reach carbon neutral making those things.
 

Ninja

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Oh,..... and the SOFC/PEM/whatever is used to recharge the....wait for it.... Battery that drives everything.
It is not direct motive power.
 

Ninja

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(4) CH3 (methane) + (7) O2 (from air) ---> (6) H2O + (4) CO2 {in a perfect world where you don't get a partial reaction resulting in CO formation.
{This gives 14 electrons...one for each O2- atom transferring through the membrane}

If CO2 counts as "an emission"...you aint getting 'clean' from here.
If CO2 doesn't count...as it doesn't for current automotive...then yes...clean...only giving off CO2, and who cares about that, right?
...except that we aren't in a perfect world, so there will be some CO...

Pure H2 would be better (cleaner) but is extremely energy intensive to make pure. (read $$$)
Hmmm, what if I could drive a clean car... I would nickname it "Hindenburg".

Can't wait to see the fallout from the first collisions...these SOFC's run at 700-800C. Flying bits of 800C rocks (ceramics) peppering bystanders...sounds like a party.

Oh, wait, we pumped a ton (multiple actually) of formaldehyde, MEK and Xylenes into the air making these clean things.

Aint no free lunch. The car itself may be Zero EV...but the life-cycle through manufacturing will never be.

Oh, wait...the anode of the fuel cell is completely loaded with Ni and NiO for internal reformation, thems carcinogens.

Each player in the game gets a part of the process to be responsible for...the car itself can be zero emission after manufacturing, which would be an improvement over current, but the start to finish from raw materials and energy generation through end of life cannot be.
 
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
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So at the end of the day, GM can do what they claim.

GM can have no tailpipe emissions (presuming that CO2 is not an emission, or presuming electric only), and GM may have some way to claim carbon neutral...but only for the parts of the process that fall under GM.
Their suppliers and sub suppliers cannot be...but GM itself can be...and that's all they really claimed. So I'm on board!

It's just a matter of shifting the emissions positive stuff outside of GM...companies have been doing that with P&L statements for a long time.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
(4) CH3 (methane) + (7) O2 (from air) ---> (6) H2O + (4) CO2 {in a perfect world where you don't get a partial reaction resulting in CO formation.
{This gives 14 electrons...one for each O2- atom transferring through the membrane}

If CO2 counts as "an emission"...you aint getting 'clean' from here.
If CO2 doesn't count...as it doesn't for current automotive...then yes...clean...only giving off CO2, and who cares about that, right?
...except that we aren't in a perfect world, so there will be some CO...

Pure H2 would be better (cleaner) but is extremely energy intensive to make pure. (read $$$)
Hmmm, what if I could drive a clean car... I would nickname it "Hindenburg".

Can't wait to see the fallout from the first collisions...these SOFC's run at 700-800C. Flying bits of 800C rocks (ceramics) peppering bystanders...sounds like a party.

Oh, wait, we pumped a ton (multiple actually) of formaldehyde, MEK and Xylenes into the air making these clean things.

Aint no free lunch. The car itself may be Zero EV...but the life-cycle through manufacturing will never be.

Oh, wait...the anode of the fuel cell is completely loaded with Ni and NiO for internal reformation, thems carcinogens.

Each player in the game gets a part of the process to be responsible for...the car itself can be zero emission after manufacturing, which would be an improvement over current, but the start to finish from raw materials and energy generation through end of life cannot be.


Shame on you for saying this blasphemer :notme: I got biffed a bit for even raising some of those topics.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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well...
Please consider me duly ashamed for having first hand data and working in that industry.
I cast anode, electrolyte and Cathode layers...we had four different exemptions, each allowing us to emit up to 1ton HAP (Xylenes, Toluene) and up to 2.6 ton VOC (MEK, Ethanol) without remediation and without permit (thus 'exemption'). (x4, we had four exemptions)

BTDT in this field.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
well...
Please consider me duly ashamed for having first hand data and working in that industry.
I cast anode, electrolyte and Cathode layers...we had four different exemptions, each allowing us to emit up to 1ton HAP (Xylenes, Toluene) and up to 2.6 ton VOC (MEK, Ethanol) without remediation and without permit (thus 'exemption'). (x4, we had four exemptions)

BTDT in this field.

Duh! I don't mfg anything but I sure get to audit a @hitpot full of places involved.
 
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