ISO 9001 News ISO 9001:2025 - What should be changed in the next Edition of ISO 9001? - REVISION PROCEEDING- August 2023

Mike S. said:

I guess opinions aren't welcome in Paul's world, except for his.

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At least he will have specific, detailed info to pass onwards to ISO, and can give informed user (customer) feedback. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

Mike S. said:

I guess opinions aren't welcome in Paul's world, except for his.

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Paul has been an insider of sorts and definitely closer than most of us.

Peter Fraser said:

At least he will have specific, detailed info to pass onwards to ISO, and can give informed user (customer) feedback.

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As if they'll really listen.

I've sat back and paid attention, looked at trends and all that and here's my opinion........Mine alone.

I see an international organization that is heavily swayed and influenced by my definition of "bullies" located from a few hundred to 1,000 miles in all directions from 53.0000° N, 9.0000° E. It seems like whenever their applecart is overturned others have to take care of the mess. Or if "they" want something they'll get it. Just studying the state of affairs on this topic alone and the animosity it's seeming to bring out in this group setting, can possibly help us to understand why thousands and millions of people got on leaky boats starting 400-500 years ago and braved the stormy N Atlantic to get the devil away from all that.

And to think, one of the reasons the organization was brought about was to help prevent crap like this..................My opinion as bad as it might be.

Maybe it is unreasonable to even hope for this....but who says there can be only one standard for quality management systems?

In most other areas of goods and services, there are alternatives that crop up.

We should not forget that, after the first poll that resulted in a confirmation of ISO 9001, some people floated the asinine (me and my inflammatory words) idea of converting ISO 9004 in to a requirements standard. To me, it provides additional evidence of the questionable intent by some people in the sc2 ecosystem towards undue commercial interests related to the standards they manage, as it is widely established the fact that requirements (Type A) standards have a much broader commercial appeal than guidance documents (Type B).

We have a thread on that subject here at The Cove if anyone is interested in browsing it. Interesting Discussion - Should ISO 9004 be changed from a guidance document to a requirements standard?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

mattador78 said:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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Loosely translated as "Who watches the watchers?"

From SC2 plenary meeting October 2023

• Progress in planning for the revision of ISO 9001 with Work Group (WG) 29. The first meeting of WG29 will take place in London between 4th and 8th December 2023. The design specification has been approved and confirms that the scope of the standard will remain unchanged. The timeline for the revision is 24 months, with expected publication at the end of 2025. Please contact your National Standards Body or Liaison organization if you would like to have your voice heard as this work progresses.
• The work on the revision of ISO 9001 will be completed in close alignment with ISO TC 176 / SC 1 / WG2 who are revising ISO 9000 and will also be meeting in London between 4th and 8th December. Close liaison will ensure that the revised standards support understanding of quality management concepts, principles, terminology, and requirements for certification.
• The ISO Online Standards Development platform will be used for these revisions to ease and control the revision effort.
• The decision was made that inclusion of guidance material within ISO 9001 will occur for the first time, in alignment with other Management System Standards.
• ISO 9001 will soon join all Type A ISO Management System Standards in being amended to include updates to Clause 4 regarding climate change. The amendments are expected to be issued in January 2024. This amendment is being actioned by ISO Central Secretariat following a resolution passed by the ISO Technical Management Board (TMB) at its Annual Meeting in September to add climate change considerations to the Appendix 2 of Annex SL (i.e. Harmonized Structure for MSS with guidance for use). The additional wording is intended to put a spotlight on climate change and will be incorporated within all ISO MSS as a matter of urgency through the Amendment.
  • Added to Clause 4.1: The organization shall determine whether climate change is a relevant issue.
  • Added to Clause 4.2: NOTE: Relevant interested parties can have requirements related to climate change.
• The inclusion of ISO 9001 in a pilot for the ISO/IEC SMART project to unleash digital power of international standards.

Finally!

So... 9000 is being revised as well, but will remain a separate document to be purchased separately (or ignored by the majority of 9001 users).
"Inclusion of guidance material": more "Notes" - just what we need!

Is ISO capable of ensuring that the two standards are clear, consistent and demonstrate best practice? Or even logical?

And climate change is (miraculously) now the only "external factor" that might influence how an organisation might deliver goods and services?

"Unleash digital power of international standards" - come on now, don't make me laugh...

Good luck with that.

Sidney Vianna said:

Added to Clause 4.1: The organization shall determine whether climate change is a relevant issue.

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Third party ISO 9001 audit post amendment of an Oil Major, Major Airline, Major Shipping Company, Major Automotive OEM, Major Commercial Aircraft Manufacturer, Major Cement Producer, etc.

Auditor: I see here in your (not required) quality manual that you did not identify climate change as a relevant issue for your quality system.

Auditee: That’s right.

Auditor: But you can’t dismiss it.

Auditee: what part of the Organization shall don’t you understand. It is up to us. And we deemed not relevant for our quality system.

Auditor: But…

Auditee: Next question

See? Problem solved. Can’t wait to see world hunger, wealth distribution, inequality, racism, social mobility, etc being added to ISO 9001. World 4.0. Thanks, ISO.