Re: In ISO 9001:2008 Can we show Internal dept as our client/Customer
This is the ISO 9001 forum....
This is the ISO 9001 forum....
In ISO 9001:2008 - Can we show an Internal Department as our Client/Customer
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D
DrM2u
Re: In ISO 9001:2008 Can we show Internal dept as our client/Customer
I am well aware of it. The OP mentioned it in the forum title and the posting. Any reason for you reminding me that?
I am well aware of it. The OP mentioned it in the forum title and the posting. Any reason for you reminding me that?Re: In ISO 9001:2008 Can we show Internal dept as our client/Customer
Yes, indeed, Dr. As a relative newcomer to the Cove, you may not be aware that it occurs that people post information not pertinent to the forum. I've done it myself in my enthusiasm to answer a query. In addition, we also see posters interjecting requirements from other standards which has caused the thread to stray, which, in turn often confuses those who may not read the whole thread (and its deviations) in attempting to seek an answer.
In short, it's often better for all involved, to keep to the forum topic and not add in answers from other industries - simply for the sake of clarity! Of course, that's just my humble opinion. Other people will, I'm sure add their points of view - perhaps in another thread to avoid any more off topic discussions
Yes, indeed, Dr. As a relative newcomer to the Cove, you may not be aware that it occurs that people post information not pertinent to the forum. I've done it myself in my enthusiasm to answer a query. In addition, we also see posters interjecting requirements from other standards which has caused the thread to stray, which, in turn often confuses those who may not read the whole thread (and its deviations) in attempting to seek an answer.
In short, it's often better for all involved, to keep to the forum topic and not add in answers from other industries - simply for the sake of clarity! Of course, that's just my humble opinion. Other people will, I'm sure add their points of view - perhaps in another thread to avoid any more off topic discussions
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indusvl
Re: In ISO 9001:2008 Can we show Internal dept as our client/Customer
Dear Andy,
Thanks for you reply.
And now I am clear with how to go with ISO 9000.
And in my company manual we have a excluded section 7.6.
But we don't have a section 3 at all in our manual.
Can you provide me with the requirements of section 3 of ISO 9001 please.
Thanks
indusarav...
Dear Andy,
Thanks for you reply.
And now I am clear with how to go with ISO 9000.
And in my company manual we have a excluded section 7.6.
But we don't have a section 3 at all in our manual.
Can you provide me with the requirements of section 3 of ISO 9001 please.
Thanks
indusarav...
Peter Fraser
Trusted Information Resource
Oh, if only it were that easy to interpret 9000 and 9001! There is often a gap between what folk think of as their organisation's "customers" and "products" and what the definitions in the standards seem to say. ISO9000 says that: "a customer is an organization or person that receives a product (ie the result of a process)", but a note in ISO9000:2000 states that the term “product” applies “only to the product intended for, or required by, a customer”. [Of course it is - it is part of a circular definition!]
Although the concept of “internal” as well as external customers does give a useful reminder that individuals within the organisation rely on others’ performances, I believe that the way most people think of the term “product” is still largely used in relation to the “deliverable” supplied by the organisation to an outside party (an external customer).
If customers can be internal, the term "customer-related processes" is a tautology - by definition, every process must be "customer-related". Confusing?
It gets worse: 3.5.2.3 defines a "service" as "intangible product that is the result of interaction between customer and supplier", and NOTE 2 then totally confuses me by talking about "the product of a service..." (ie not of a process)... And the fact that "product" is defined as "the result of a process" is then compromised by the term "product realization processes" which implies that other processes don't "realise" (ie create) products.
3.10.1 NOTE 2 says that "External audits include those generally termed second- and third-party audits. Second-party audits are conducted by parties having an interest in the organization, such as customers..." which sounds very much to me as though they are external to the organisation.
And ISO9001:2008 has complicated it further by saying that "In this International Standard, the term “product” applies to the product intended for, or required by, a customer or the product realization processes. This applies to any intended output resulting from product realization processes, including purchasing". Surely there must be a simpler way to define and explain the basic terms that everyone uses?
Re: In ISO 9001:2008 Can we show Internal dept as our client/Customer
It is copyrighted material. You should buy a copy of the standard, really!
It is copyrighted material. You should buy a copy of the standard, really!
J
JaneB
Re: In ISO 9001:2008 Can we show Internal dept as our client/Customer
ISO 9000? I'm less sure about recommending you buy a copy of it. Yes, it contains the definitions, but it's somewhat 'heavy going' and is basically just a list of words and their meanings. Useful as a reference, but about as interesting as reading a dictionary (in fact, even less so, given that the range of words is restricted).
Yes, you really should at least get a copy of ISO 9001. You need to read it, and learn to understand what it is actually saying, which will help you answer your own questions.
ISO 9000? I'm less sure about recommending you buy a copy of it. Yes, it contains the definitions, but it's somewhat 'heavy going' and is basically just a list of words and their meanings. Useful as a reference, but about as interesting as reading a dictionary (in fact, even less so, given that the range of words is restricted).
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ISO 9001 Guy
Why not make it clear with the auditor that it was a slow year and that you had no projects this year. The auditors presumably could look at evidence from last year, if necessary. You might suggest to your auditors up front during the scheduling phase that no new evidence exists beyond that which has already been assessed. The registrar may be able to arrange the schedule to avoid the necessity of auditing the process during this surveillance audit. So the question might be, do you need to show a new project this year?
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J
JaneB
You may often find that some people get a bit 'blind' about customers and think that they are only ever someone external to your organisation. (People whose only experience is with manufacturing and large commercial organisations are particularly prone to this.) It's not so as others have said also. A customer is a customer, whether they are internal or external.
If you've only done internal projects this year... fine. The key point is whether you've got a functioning quality management system that meets 9001 requirements, and whether you've applied that system. That's it.
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Great points, and very true!
However, an organization lives by the entity bringing in the cash; the external customer. I would be most concerned about them.Stijloor.
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