Who has had a Transition Audit from TS 16949 to IATF 16949

Well we finished our transition to IATF yesterday. Finally slept well for the first time in weeks. 4 minors which I guess isn't bad. But there was definitely push back on ownership and additional responsibilities. Glad to be on the other side of the fence.

Best of luck to those still in the pipe line.
YOU CAN DO IT!

Finished my audit last week. 3.5 days. Tier 1 with 0 ppm (and we ship millions of pieces). Failure is NOT an option 'cause no cert means no work.

At the opening meeting the auditor stated that we were his 12th audit. The previous 11 were all failures. He has removed 3 certificates. Plan for a failure. Anticipate many non-conformances. He stated no less than 25 times that we should just give up. 6 Majors, 10 Minors. Most majors were mandated (GM CSR cascades to requiring document retention to "production run + 50 years with review" (I had +1) and a scorecard was updated just prior to the audit with a missed delivery) We are appealing 2 of them.

I would LOVE to see the metrics of how many certs have been lost.

Slim Pickins said:

At the opening meeting the auditor stated that we were his 12th audit. The previous 11 were all failures. He has removed 3 certificates. Plan for a failure. Anticipate many non-conformances. He stated no less than 25 times that we should just give up.

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...at which point, I'd pull him aside and point to the sign marked "Exit"... Then get on a call to his Operations management and relay this diatribe to them for their immediate action...

Slim Pickins said:

He has removed 3 certificates. Plan for a failure. Anticipate many non-conformances. He stated no less than 25 times that we should just give up.

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This auditor just violated several principles of management systems auditing, acting so misguidedly. Even if he is technically correct, he should not mistreat auditee personnel with so much contempt.

It is a well known fact that certification bodies are struggling to maintain qualified auditors in some industry controlled schemes such as the IATF-16949 and the IAQG-91X0 programs. But to keep auditors who subject auditees (clients) to this kind of harassment is uncalled for. You must, for the sake of the professional and competent management system auditing practitioners out there, report this atrocious behavior.

I know also that IATF personnel are voyeurs in this webspace. Maybe they will do some investigating...

Hello Dave Cx....your plant population is only 24 people and it required 3 man-days of audits? Our Transition Audit is in early April, and we have around 100 people, and as of right now we are scheduled for only doing 2 man-days.

boxer12 said:

Hello Dave Cx....your plant population is only 24 people and it required 3 man-days of audits? Our Transition Audit is in early April, and we have around 100 people, and as of right now we are scheduled for only doing 2 man-days.

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Seems kind of low. 2 man days or 2 days with multiple auditors. For us, about 20 people we usually 2.5 days with one auditor.

boxer12 said:

Hello Dave Cx....your plant population is only 24 people and it required 3 man-days of audits? Our Transition Audit is in early April, and we have around 100 people, and as of right now we are scheduled for only doing 2 man-days.

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I'm with Golfman on this. It's too low... Even if you aren't design responsible for ISO 9001 it would be a minimum of 2 days! If your CB isn't following the IAOB rules, it could put your cert at risk and you'd have to have a second audit.

I just checked and per the 5th Edition of the IATF Rules - Table 5.2 (Page 26) with 81 total employees, we should do 4 audit days.

Yes when it came to the actual audit my auditor added a day so 3 + 1/2 a day to write it up. I have the IATF rules also, being as this is a transition audit I understand it counts as an "Initial certification Stage 2 audit" The audit days quoted are a minimum.

The rules state as follows:-

Employees _ Min. Audit days
01 - 06 ____ 2.0
07 - 11 ____ 2.5
12 - 18 ____ 3.0
19 - 27 ____ 3.5
28 - 39 ____ 4.0
40 - 54 ____ 4.5
55 - 71 ____ 5.0
72 - 93 ____ 5.5
94 - 117 ___ 6.0
It does seem harsh that we have 1/2 the number of audit days that 100 person company has. We have just 1 production shift so all the non production clauses were audited in great depth.
Dave

I agree Andy WOW I have tons of documentation that uses that clause as a reference almost all ..... Audit Next month I better get busy typing LOL