Is it possible to control Customer Drawings (Prints) by a "Received" Date Stamp?

What does "IMHO" stand for?

Marc, I'm unfamiliar with Configuration Management. Could you explain further, please?

Marc, we do have procedures stating what happens to the drawings once we get the job; they are handed from the Applications Engineer to the Project Manager. From this point on all updates and changes to the project are handled through the Project Manager. Sales typically doesn't get heavily involved, unless it is a major change. Right now we do have to ask our Project Managers if there has been any revisions to the Customer's drawing or, more importantly, part.

You have, however, answered my root question: Is what we are currently doing even considered "control" of our Customer's drawings? As far as I can see, the answer is, no. Oddly enough, what we are currently doing works fine. We ususally don't see revisions of the Customer's part drawings until we already have the tooling designed. By that point the rest of the machine is already designed (typically). In some horrible instances, the Customer has brought the revisions (for the first time)with him for the runoff of the machine. So we typically don't receive many updated drawings during the design of the machine.

Since I'm on this topic, does anyone know how to coax updated drawings from your Customers?

Everyone's suggestions are helpful.

Thank you,

Dan

IMHO = In My 'Humble' Opinion.

Configuration Management:

I design a device. Drawings (code, whatever) are released at rev 0 (rev, date, whatever - typically there's a letter of number). I start production manufacturing to rev 0. In 2 months I find there is a bug or problem so I revise the drawing and release rev 1. Now I begin manufacturing to rev 1. 5 months later I make another design change and release rev 2.

As you go through changes you monitor and keep a history of changes as they proceed. Unlike what is common in documentation changes (many companies have a 2 revision rule or similar guideline for systems procedures and such), you keep an entire history of the design evolution.

1 year later a customer calls and says I have one of your widgets. During the past year you have produced units to 3 different design dffrawings (rev 0, 1 and 2). You have to find out which rev their unit was built to (maybe you changed the entire control circuit when you went from rev 1 to rev 2) so that you can troubleshoot the problem or repair the unit.

In your situation you are saying you receive a contract to manufacture a widget to a specific drawing and level. I am not convinced you should be concerned with whether or not you have the 'latest' drawing - I'd have to see how your contract reads - typically a contract calls out a drawing rev level and changing that implies a contract change. They may update the drawing and it may even require a process that you are not capable of doing - you can't 'automagically' use the latest rev to build to unless you have discussed the implications with your customer.

In so far as your methodology, I do not doubt that it 'works' - but what is your definition of 'works'? Does this mean you can find the drawing when it comes time to check the finished product?

I'm not trying to complicate the issue, but rather to clarify. If you look back, the original post had two issues stated:

We need to keep our Customer's drawings in as perfect condition as possible....

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and

...the best way to control Customer drawings...

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To me these are two entirely different issues.

If I was auditing your facility I would want to discuss Control of External Documents. I would probably ask for an inventory (list or lists) of customer prints in-house and see what happened. You might convince me you have rudimentary control. However, this is not related to a 'Date Received' stamp on a print.

If I was auditing you, I doubt I would cite you against Control of External Documents in so far as customer prints goes. You do have a defined/documented system for receiving the drawing and who gets them eventually.

Nor, considering everything, do I particularly think you need to go beyond what you are currently doing. None the less, the date Stamp, IMO, is not a significant factor - the drawiung rev level is what is important. If I was going to improve your system for more robust control, I would just ensure that an inventory element exists.

Barb and Tom have made some good points - particularly as this scenario relates to a relatively small (less than 300 souls) company.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 17 January 2000).]

I think the major difference here is that the product the manufacturer makes is a machine to assemble, weld, or package the widget, not the widget itself. The customer provides a drawing of what the inputs (components) and outputs (widget) should look like and the manufacturer designs and produces the machine to do it. If I am correct, Dan is trying to document what his customer tells him he is to create a machine to produce, and he wants to protect himself against the customer saying "that's not what I told you I wanted". The machine itself is made with drawings created by the manufacturer, not the customer.
I don't see a need for these drawings to appear on a master list. What I do see is a need to capture them in the Contract Review process, and put in place the procedures that if any revised drawings come into sales, the Contract Review process must be used again to ensure that no changes to the design of the machine are required. IMHO

Tom, you hit the nail square on the head!

We get drawings of the pieces to be welded, assembled, or packaged; and drawings of the finished product. It is up to us to design a machine that will take the multiple pieces and perform the operation(s) necessary to make the finished product. Our Customer drawings are used as a reference point from which we design the tooling (sometimes we get actual parts to measure and initiate design), as well as used for protection in the event the Customer changes the part and doesn't notify us.

As for updated drawings, the Application Engineer handles the effect on the project (job), via addendums, revisions, etc., if we receive them before we get a P.O. Otherwise, it is the Project Manager's responsibility to issue a "Project Change Notice", if it is necessary. The "Project Change Notice" is used to modify the contract if need be, or to get an all together different P.O. The procedures are outlined in the "Contract Review Modification" section of our Quality Procedure Manual.

From what I'm gathering here, all I really need to do, to put my mind at ease, is to put together a log of the updated drawings? I think I can handle that.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

Dan

[This message has been edited by Dan De Yarman (edited 18 January 2000).]

Sounds solid to me, Dan.

If what you are currently doing is working, I'm not sure you want to add the log. Remember that if you add the log and it is not ever not maintained, you are in noncompliance; this noncompliance is not to the standard, but to your procedures. You must decide if creating and maintaining a log adds value to your business.

One thing that might help is to itemize the drawings, with rev levels and dates, on the acknowledgement to the customer. That would help draw the line in the sand as to the information your company was using to design and build the machine. This keeps the buyer at the customer's end in the loop also.

Regarding coaxing drawings out of customers, that can be tough. Being fair with charging the customer the added cost can be effective, but it is a touchy area and can irritate customers as well. You can develop a reputation for quoting one thing and then making it up on changes; some buyers and engineers seem to forget that the charges were justified or are just unaware of how high the costs can be. Your companies sales contacts with the customer are important; I suspect that sometimes the customer's engineers on the project aren't even aware of part changes that occur.

Communication lapses occur way to often.

Re: Is it possible to control Customer drawings by a "Received" date stamp?

The "stamp" issue came up tonight. As I wanted to help a bit I started going through some old discussion threads.

Some thoughts some of us had about 17 years ago...