The Future Structure of ISO Management System Standards - from HLS to HS (Harmonized Structure) September 2023

Sidney Vianna said:

I need to correct myself. (broken link removed) and now the High level structure (HLS), identical core text, common terms and core definitions of ISO Management System Standards is contained as Appendix 3 of the ISO/IEC Directives, Part 1 - Consolidated ISO Supplement ? Procedures specific to ISO. The only part close to preventive action in that document is in the Planning section

But remember, just because preventive action is not explicitly mentioned in the HLS text, this would not prohibit an ISO TC/SC, e.g., ISO TC 176 SC 2 to add a requirement related to preventive action in the body of the future ISO 9001:2015.

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b) evaluate the need for action to eliminate the causes of  the  nonconformity, in order that it 
does not recur or [B]occur[/B] elsewhere, by
 reviewing the nonconformity
 determining the causes of the nonconformity, and
 determining if similar nonconformities exist, or could [B]potentially occur[/B];

Lexylou said:

It's been awhile since I posted anything in a ISO post and I'm actually asking the question for a parent company who was certified two years ago. The question that I have is on the ISO standard itself. They are working to a "E" version. Has there been a revision change in the last few years?

Thanks

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Lexylou said:

It's been awhile since I posted anything in a ISO post and I'm actually asking the question for a parent company who was certified two years ago. The question that I have is on the ISO standard itself. They are working to a "E" version. Has there been a revision change in the last few years?

Thanks

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Sidney Vianna said:

Implementing ANY Management System is, by definition, putting processes in place to PREVENT problems. Even corrective actions PREVENT recurrence of a problem. Still, just because something is PREVENTIVE in nature, it does not necessarily fit the definition of preventive action in ISO 9000, according to the wisdom of the standard authors. We have several threads on the issue and I would hope that we don't take this thread too off course.

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This High Level Structure and Identical text does not include a clause giving specific requirements for “preventive action”. This is because one of the key purposes of a formal management system is to act as a preventive tool. Consequently, the High Level Structure and Identical text require an assessment of the organization’s “external and internal issues that are relevant to its purpose and that affect its ability to achieve the intended outcome(s)” in clause 4.1, and to “determine the risks and opportunities that need to be addressed to: assure the XXX management system can achieve its intended outcome(s); prevent, or reduce, undesired effects; achieve continual improvement.” in clause 6.1. These two sets of requirements are considered to cover the concept of “preventive action”, and also to take a wider view that looks at risks and opportunities.

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hitesh43 said:

Thanks Sidney, for sharing information. Look quite interesting.
Problem for the 60 to 70% organization, they just implementing the standard for the sack of Marketing / for the align with competitor / some other compulsion. Ultimately this become business for the CB. Should have format which pay back to organization. I will see that if I'm paying 1000 USD to CB per year then how I will get it back based on their audit comments / findings. Other things are organization is doing as their is a pressure for quality from customer and cost cutting from management.

I am really excited to see how the CA and PA will change which will really useful and finally result either in terms of quality improvement or cost reduction.

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