Definition 1st, 2nd and 3rd Party Audits - Definition

Randy · Aug 22, 2010

Big Jim said:
What's wrong with the ISO 19011 definitions?

3.1
audit
NOTE Internal audits, sometimes called first party audits, are conducted by, or on hehalf of, the organization itself for management review and other internal purposes and can form the basis for an organization's self-declaration of conformity. In many cases, particularly in smaller organizations, independence can be demonstrated by the freedom from responsibility for the activity being audited.

NOTE 2 External audits include those generally termed second and third party audits. Second party audits are conducted by parties having an interest in the organization, such as customers, or by other persons on their behalf. Third party audits are conducted by external, independent auditing organizations, such as those providing registration or certification of conformity to requirements of ISO 9001 and ISO 14001.

(emphasis added)

Absolutely nothing except for the fact that they are so simple to understand they can't be true, so it's easier to make up your own and continue getting lost going from the bedroom to the kitchen and totake other with you on the whirlwind tour.

Ettore · Mar 28, 2012

Good afternoon
immagine a standard check list for ISO 9001 or ISO TS 16949 (DNV or other)
Exactly at which point of check list is connected the Audit from the customer to the supplier.
i need it for my IDEF diagrams and my "little web apllication"

qusys · Mar 28, 2012

Ettore said:
Good afternoon
immagine a standard check list for ISO 9001 or ISO TS 16949 (DNV or other)
Exactly at which point of check list is connected the Audit from the customer to the supplier.
i need it for my IDEF diagrams and my "little web apllication"

In ISO TS it should be clause 7.4.3.1 Incoming quality as well as clause 7.6.3.2 External Labs.
However it could also be seen in additional ISO TS clauses, based upon the process put in place by an organization and the related implemented activities.

Could you plese be more specific for request? What are IDEF diagrams?
Hope this helps :bigwave:

Ettore · Mar 28, 2012

qusys said:
Hope this helps

Thank you for your kind answer
But ìf the company is the supplier?
Could be 7.2 .....3c? or 8.2.1
or .....?

IDEF
https://www.google.it/#hl=it&sugexp=llsin&gs_nf=1&pq=iso%209000%20idef&cp=13&gs_id=28&xhr=t&q=idef+iso+9001&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=idef+iso+9001&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7302678931a99700&biw=1308&bih=641

qusys · Mar 29, 2012

Ettore said:
Thank you for your kind answer
But ìf the company is the supplier?
Could be 7.2 .....3c? or 8.2.1
or .....?<snip>

I was not able to understand the precise question...

Be more specific with examples and purpose of the work :bigwave:

Integrator - 2012 · Jun 11, 2012

I know it's been a long time in the discussion about first second third party audits but I have a question.

A company I work for doesnt want to have to pay for third party certification (9001/14001 etc), but wants a qualified auditor to come in do a full audit of the system, provide a report with nonconformances, we responce and fix the issues, get him back and he will (hopefully) attest that the nonconformances have been resolved. We call this a 'second party audit', but it appears from the above discussion that it is not.

So is it a third party audit or a first party audit. What we want to do is mimick the "official" third party audit system.

AndyN · Jun 11, 2012

It's a third party audit, since he's not your customer and isn't really doing an internal audit.

ssz102 · Jun 12, 2012

for my understand, the 1 st audit is inner audit
the 2nd audit is interest parties audit such as supplier audit(system, process and product) or customer audit or other bodies authorized by customers
and the 3rd audit is register body or organization audit certified by standard institute

Sidney Vianna · Jun 12, 2012

Integrator said:
What we want to do is mimick the "official" third party audit system.

The third party audit system goes beyond an audit and entails a certification program. If the CB is duly accredited, there would be expectations for a competence establishment process for the auditor; as an independent auditor, who/how competence is determined? Further, since organizations and systems are dynamic, things change. 12 months after an audit, it is very likely that the system has undergone a number of changes and, who would be ensuring such changes are not affecting the system conformance to the standard(s)?

Big Jim · Jun 12, 2012

Integrator said:
I know it's been a long time in the discussion about first second third party audits but I have a question. <snip>

It is still a 1st party audit. Outsourcing your internal audit does not put it into another category. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party audit definition is in ISO 19011.

It is very common to hire an auditor from outside to perform your internal audit. I do a lot of them. From a dictionary definition, that would be a 3rd party (someone from outside) doing your internal audit, but it would not be within the definition of 19011.

Definition 1st, 2nd and 3rd Party Audits - Definition

Randy

Ettore

Quite Involved in Discussions

qusys

Ettore

Quite Involved in Discussions

qusys

Integrator - 2012

AndyN

Moved On

ssz102

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly

Big Jim

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