How do you find your Internal Auditors?

AndyN said:

Does anyone actually use a set of published criteria (they could share) for selecting internal auditor candidates? I mean more than just what ISO 19011 says! Practical criteria.......

After years of training thousands of auditor candidates, I'd be interested to know if anyone uses some sort of 'standards' for their people. I've seen folks come to IA class who clearly have no clue why they're there..........:mg:

Click to expand...

You mean being "volun-told" by their manager is not sufficient reason to know why they're there?!?! Shocking...

In my own case (or rather in my former occupation prior to the promotion), we based selection on:

• Ability to adhere to a routine and the fundamentals of routine management (a concept which is the foundation of my organization's business system)
• Previous experience as an auditor (be it QMS, EMS, Safety, Mtce/General Inspection, 5S, etc.)
• Current workload - let's face facts...if Jane Smith is working on a capex project or two, we won't pull her into the auditor pool
• Process knowledge and awareness (i.e., knows what the heck a process is...maybe not an expert on the company's processes but has the ability to learn them)
• General people skills (based off of appraisals)

Those are the ones that come to mind first thing...it's the first day back after a long weekend...give the coffee some time to kick in.

RCBeyette said:

...it's the first day back after a long weekend...give the coffee some time to kick in.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know what you mean, it took me 3 hours to cross over the bridge at Fort Erie on Saturday.....

AndyN said:

Yeah, I know what you mean, it took me 3 hours to cross over the bridge at Fort Erie on Saturday.....

Click to expand...

That's because some of the Canadian customs officers are now allowed to carry weapons at the border...and we're trying to figure out which end we put the water in.

There are two more items that I should mention in regards to who our internal auditors are...

(1) For some, it is part of their job. It was mine when I was the QA Coordinator and it will now be the responsibility of the Management Systems Coordinator. It is also the responsibility of the Environmental Manager. For these two, it is mandatory as we do integrated internal audits (i.e, to ISO 9001/ISO 14001). The Safety Manager is required to be trained on how to do audits to the requirements of ISRS, however, as much is "his responsibility", he is unable to audit himself.

(2) Retention is a problem. As we do annual integrated integrated audits, we always have a handful of new auditors each year. In fact, of my 6 auditors from 2006's audit, only 2 remained...myself and the HR Manager. I trained 5 new ones...it will be interesting to see who is here in 2008.

Roxane:
Why not do smaller scope, more frequent audits to help keep their interest and skills current?

AndyN said:

Roxane:
Why not do smaller scope, more frequent audits to help keep their interest and skills current?

Click to expand...

For 2 main reasons:

• Having been registered to ISO 9001 since 1998 and ISO 14001 since 2004, our business management system is very mature. A large, integrated audit allows us to assess the health of our overall system.
• Smaller audits are conducted at different levels. These audits capture area/cell-specific conformance or lack thereof. Smaller audits include:
  • 5S - conducted in 23 designated areas on a monthly basis
  • Safety Hour - conducted in designated departments, Monday - Friday from 11am-12pm
  • General inspection tours - conducted bi-monthly in production areas

The smaller audits - and their process as well as their results - are reviewed during the larger audit as they have impacts on both quality and environment.

There are many auditors who have certifications through RABQSA and/or IRCA. They need to do so many audits to keep their credentials. The local ASQ section can be contacted to reacjh them, and a mutually beneficial arrangement can be discussed.

Z-Man said:

There are many auditors who have certifications through RABQSA and/or IRCA. They need to do so many audits to keep their credentials. The local ASQ section can be contacted to reacjh them, and a mutually beneficial arrangement can be discussed.

Click to expand...

True, but these people aren't going to be 'true' internal auditors. From what I've seen, they work like external auditors and that's already being covered by the registrar, so why do it?

RCBeyette said:

Having been registered to ISO 9001 since 1998 and ISO 14001 since 2004, our business management system is very mature.

Click to expand...

Welcome back Roxane and congrats on your promotion.

Have you ever thought of twisting your CB's arm to apply the ASRP (Advanced Surveillance & Reassessment Procedure) protocol? Very few CB's are accredited for ASRP under ANAB and other AB's. Even informed professionals are oblivious to the accredited ASRP route.

Sidney Vianna said:

Welcome back Roxane and congrats on your promotion.

Click to expand...

Thank you and thank you.

Sidney Vianna said:

Have you ever thought of twisting your CB's arm to apply the ASRP (Advanced Surveillance & Reassessment Procedure) protocol? Very few CB's are accredited for ASRP under ANAB and other AB's. Even informed professionals are oblivious to the accredited ASRP route.

Click to expand...

With the new job and responsibilities, I shall now invoke my favourite phrase "Not my problem."

Seriously, though, we are now at an annual integrated external audit and that's what we may remain at until there is some stability in our system. In the past few years, our business management system has undergone some major upheavals (i.e., software changes, new standards integrated into it, modification of tools and methodologies, etc.), that for our own benefit we wish to retain minimum external audits.

Complimented with our various levels of internal auditing, we are comfortable that we are properly assessing conformance to requirements and responding to non-conforming situations (and there are some, trust me).

Until our system's "growing pains" lessen, however, we should retain our current frequency. But thanks you for the link! Very informative!

Willingness to help...and if not...is part of their job anyway.