Your Internal Audit Team: Internal or Hired External? Outsourcing Internal Audits

With a company below 100 people the ony way that makes sense is external.

To Outsource Internal Audits or not Depends Upon the Company and the Specific Needs

cncmarine said:

In a small company it is a one size fits all answer.

Auditors can not audit their own work....

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The type of company is also a factor. For example, see: Outsourcing Internal Audits - 60 Retail Stores - Effectiveness vs. Compliance.

You might also want to check out this early thread: Outsourcing Internal Audits - Is this a bad idea?

This is often a big reason to outsource: Problem getting help from upper management with our internal auditing program

Mixed reaction

Icy Mountain said:

Finally, I see an openness, frankness, and honesty with our internal auditor that I have rarely observed elsewhere. Whether this is due to his skill with people or that people don't think he has an ulterior motive, I do not know. What I do know is that our registrar's auditors generate attaboys for and not findings against our Internal Audit process.

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I get a mixed reaction from external auditors when they find out I am doing or participating in my client's internal audits. Some I think is professional jeolousy that I might have a better relationship than they do with the client. Some are quite blatant about "you shouldn't use an external person.... send your staff to our courses."

On the point about doing the internal audit before the external; it is partly so that you don't get a "bad" result at the external. But if everybodys happy.....

Icy Mountain said:

So far I am the lone outsource and love it vote. Allow me to explain my logic.
I would never claim that my employees are "too busy". However, they do have higher priorities.

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One factor to consider with regard to the "sampling" on this question. I do
contracted "internal" audits for several of my clients. Most of them do not
participate in fora (forums?) like this one; they leave it up to me to keep
them informed. So, I would assert that the population of QM's actively participating in the Cove does not reflect the population at large; instead,
we have the folk who are most concerned about staying up to date and
connected, and making the time to do so. (My typical client is more likely
to stay connected to his industry (e.g. stamping, plastic molding, etc.)
than the Cove or, say, ASQ.

Brad

Internal audit and follow up

Hi
I have just ended the training for my internal audits and they are know practising it. I use emplyees for this, much to give them better insight in the company.
Every department are required to make an action plan based on the internal audit. The action plan is than the base document for the month CI process. The CI are documented in our QMS and can be viewed on our intra net.
What I find difficult is to set a common level for the audits. Some managers see this as a waste of time and are very quick to speak there mind about focusing on producing... other see it as a potential improvment process.

Anyone that have any ideas how to set a common level accepted through the organisation?

DavidB:

DavidB said:

Some managers see this as a waste of time and are very quick to speak there mind about focusing on producing... other see it as a potential improvment process.

Anyone that have any ideas how to set a common level accepted through the organisation?

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Yes, some people will inevitably start making noise about waste of time. This is a well known hurdle, and I have to say that there is no fast route to acceptance: Internal auditing has to prove it's worth by adding value to the organization.

/Claes

DavidB said:

Hi
I have just ended the training for my internal audits and they are know practising it. I use emplyees for this, much to give them better insight in the company.
Every department are required to make an action plan based on the internal audit. The action plan is than the base document for the month CI process. The CI are documented in our QMS and can be viewed on our intra net.
What I find difficult is to set a common level for the audits. Some managers see this as a waste of time and are very quick to speak there mind about focusing on producing... other see it as a potential improvment process.

Anyone that have any ideas how to set a common level accepted through the organisation?

DavidB:

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"Constancy of purpose," as Dr. Deming put it, is the responsibility of top management, and there isn't much you can do at a lower level to create it aside from trying to enlighten the bosses. When a production manager's explicit priority is mass production and the quality manager's responsibility is continuous improvement, conflicts are inevitable.

Claes Gefvenberg said:

Yes, some people will inevitably start making noise about waste of time. This is a well known hurdle, and I have to say that there is no fast route to acceptance: Internal auditing has to prove it's worth by adding value to the organization.

/Claes

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When internal audits produce beneficial results, ideas and findings that make the company better, it should start getting attention.

On the other hand, when bad practices are written up, and noone changes anything, and you get no support, at least you have documented the issue was brought to light when the inevitable stuff hits the fan someday.

MikeL said:

I get a mixed reaction from external auditors when they find out I am doing or participating in my client's internal audits. Some I think is professional jeolousy that I might have a better relationship than they do with the client......

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They really should not have any "jeolousy," though I'm sure some would. It says a lot about their own level of experience, perhaps.

I would fully expect a consultant or internal auditor to have a closer relationship with the client than I would as an registrar auditor.

To those who voted that internal audits are a waste of team. I can't understand your answer. Done properly, they should be a significant benefit. If they aren't beneficial, can you make them so?