Defining Internal Audit Process Goals & Objectives

What was the question ?

Randy said:

What was the question ?

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Good question.

tarheels4 said:

Why not? If you reduce the number of external findings, doesn't that show improvement?

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To reduce the number of external finding as a goal for internal audits will be a non-attainable goal if there are no other goals to improve other aspects of the system.

If you do not plan how you will improve aspects of your system, can you honestly expect to reduce the number external findings?

If I have a goal to lose 10 pounds by March 1, but do not change my lifestyle or eating habits, what are the odds that I will lose those 10 pounds?

If there are other goals (and corresponding plans) to improve aspects of the system, I could see the number of external findings being an additional goal, but I for one try to consider "findings" as means to improve my system. It's not so much the number I'm concerned with as to the calibre of them.

I did like ctblalock's idea of tracking repeating findings...or take it another step and track the findings that are due to the same root cause.

Add Value to Internal Audit

Some free info and thoughts can be found on the page linked below. I have posted 2 as attachment. I like the phrase: "Add value to your internal audits", otherwise is waste of time.
https://www.theiia.org
I don't like to do something, if there is no result. Routine work can be done by a less qualified person. Maybe that's why I don't do internal audits any further.
Gyorgy

RCBeyette said:

To reduce the number of external finding as a goal for internal audits will be a non-attainable goal if there are no other goals to improve other aspects of the system.?

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Yes ma'am

RCBeyette said:

If you do not plan how you will improve aspects of your system, can you honestly expect to reduce the number external findings?

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Sorry I didn't think I needed to go in to the detail of plans for achieving the goal, just providing goals.

I offer this olive branch. A bunch of quality goals. Enough to go around the whole organization twice. I hope you like it.

RCBeyette said:

I did like ctblalock's idea of tracking repeating findings...or take it another step and track the findings that are due to the same root cause.

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Here is an example of how a company with multiple sites tracks non-conformances by element/procedure. Of course this is an EMS example.

Biz Goals not Quality Goals

tarheels4 said:

... A bunch of quality goals. Enough to go around the whole organization twice. I hope you like it.

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Ooooooh my favorite soapbox topic

Quality goals?

Whaaaaa?

My best guess is less than 20% of these belong to "Quality"

You got some Business Goals there....and I'm willing to bet that because they are pushed by Quality, that they get the short end of the stick every time.

My goal for 06 is to excise the word quality from every document we have here (replaced by business). I'm about 50% done the task.

I try never to say "Quality" or "ISO" or "TS" out loud.

What gets measured gets done!

kreco said:

Well as much as I like the sounds of "no external findings against the audit process", I honestly can say that that is an impossible goal (you see, we have the devil himself as our TS auditor ). Perhaps we can say reduce NCN's by 50% (the last couple of audits we've received 8 total NCNs each time!! So maybe reduce the years total by 50%?

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Kreco

Watch out for any measure that tracks "quantity of findings"

This will lead to "gaming the system" to get the desired score every time.

It may be a very, very good thing to get twice ans many external findings as last year. If they add value.

I am very unhappy with my registrar when they find nothing. But my metric would look good.

Years ago my old boss fought every finding tooth and nail. His goal was zero (I think it was part of his pay structure).

When I took over, I gladly accepted every nonconfomance, asked for more and acted on even a casual comment.

Five years of "getting it on" lead to a big improvement!

AndyN said:

for the internal audit program, may I ask? I understand that there may be a clear purpose for the internal audits, but goals and objectives open up measurement - and I've never seen measurement of audits that gives meaningful results data!

Let me know what the background to your bosses quest is here - your 'gut feel' may be worth trusting.

Andy

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Just so you don't feel lonely Andy, I totally agree with you. The problem is that Kreco wants to know how to put a 5th wheel on a wagon. The fact that it is not needed is being lost in all of the ideas on how it should look and work. Even worse it smells of setting a performance objective which can then be used to beat the quality manager over the head.

Bill Pflanz

Kreco,
Attached is a Business Plan that I did for our audit team. it includes our goals and performance targets.

Ultimately, internal audits need to bring value to the organization. How do you determine value? YOU don't. The Auditee does. One thing I've done that is useful is to give the Auditee a survey to fill out at the closing meeting. This gives me a way to assess how well the audit team is doing from the oranization's perspective.