Does Your Organization Really Benefit from Internal Audits? Time for a Change?

Does your organization really benefit from internal audits?

  • Yes, my organization gets measurable benefit from internal audits

    Votes: 18 34.0%
  • Yes, but management doesn't make them a priority

    Votes: 18 34.0%
  • No, if we didn't have to do them, they'd be dropped

    Votes: 17 32.1%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: The no spin zone

Based on the numbers and the my assertion that if management don't make them a priority - audits are not bringing a real benefit, I'd say that there's more than 50% don't get anything back for doing them.......:yes:

What's your take, Sydney?

Andy

I'm not her him :biglaugh:, but it's Sidney. What you're saying, then, is that the 16 people who said they were a benefit but not given enough management attention are wrong?
 
B

Barahir

(Oops. Thought I was at the end of the thread there and both my questions were answered when I realized I wasn't and kept reading.)

Instead I'll say I voted yes that we get benefits but that top management doesn't make it a priority. Top management seems to not make anything but profit a priority sometimes.
 
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M

mlthompson

I have mixed feelings with internal audits. On one hand internal audits are necessary to maintain compliance. Management personnel/structure changes that can cause system to fall apart, business crisis happens that causes the attention/commitment to evaporate. Audits are necessary to ensure compliance over time.

For me, the jury is still out on if internal audits are an effective improvement tool. For me, most of the improvements I have made to product, processes, systems, etc., happens outside the internal audit system. I know the weaknesses in our system without an internal audit report telling me so. Knowing these weaknesses, I try to be proactive in fixing them up rather than waiting for the audit and corrective action processes to kick in. I know someone will point out that sometimes another set of eyes will see something that I don't, but again most of the time this happens outside the audit process.

A couple of different approaches I have been considering using internal audits if the standard was different:

1) Gap analysis. Rather than an audit, require a gap analysis periodically to review compliance and potential system improvements. With this take the independence rule and training requirements out. I as a QA Mgr have a vested interest in making sure my system maintains compliance with ISO standards so I am not going to do anything that will jeopardize our certification. If improvement is truly the goal, than me covering anything isn't going to get the results.

2) Training programs. When you pick someone out of the crowd to mentor them because you see something in them that shows potential, you don't just put them in a position, give them basic instructions, and never ever talk to them ever again. A good mentor will follow-up and give feedback, again and again. My question is how do you do this with the masses regarding training the whole bunch. Training someone on a one time instance and never following up plainly is not effective. Can the audit system be changed into something that can benefit the training program?

Also related to training programs and continual improvement is, use audits as a control method for ongoing evaluation. When corrective actions are taken to fix problems, the problem is solved short term, but quickly falls apart because people go back to old habits. My thought here is use audits to break bad habits. I have learned that someone can be trained in a day on how to do something, but it can take up to 6-12 months before it becomes "the way we have always done it".
 

BradM

Leader
Admin
Re: The no spin zone

:topic:
I'm not her him , but it's Sidney.

Hey, Sidney, have you seen Office Space, where the guy named Michael Bolton had to constantly defend that "No, I'm not related to the singer guy"!:mad: Sorry that we mis-assume your gender; I have done it more than once. Just don't crack and go destroy the fax machine. :bonk:

Back to our hero….

In my humble opinion, the Internal Auditing Program (IAP) becomes an extension of the quality program as a whole. Saying, if the upper management finds value in the quality program, they will find value in the IAP. If it’s just a piece of paper, the IAP will be a puppet show.

Also, the success of the IAP depends on the experience/qualifications of the Internal Auditors. If the auditors are professional, objective, and stick to their scope, their job will be perceived as being less of a witch hunt, and may facilitate more understanding.

As far as value to the organization: Is the quality program value to the organization? If “yes”, then the IAP will accomplish something.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Trusted Information Resource
OK.....let's revisit the title.....

Yes, the organization CAN benefit from an internal audit.....

If you are doing it just for the registration body or the accrediting body, then STOP and take the corrective action.....

BUT.....

An internal audit is like a physical exam during a check-up.....it is a tool, not a be-all-to-end-all.....a tool to monitor the organization.....approached fro that angle, it can be a good thing.
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
An internal audit is like a physical exam during a check-up.....it is a tool, not a be-all-to-end-all.....a tool to monitor the organization.....approached fro that angle, it can be a good thing.

I like your analogy:

1. If you are a healthy company, a physical/checkup would show that there's nothing to worry. It gives you 'peace of mind' and enable you to concentrate on doing what you know best.

2. If you are a dysfunctional or sick company, it will reveal a host of problems that you need to take care. Failure to do so may end up with disaster. It could also mean that you need further check up by specialist.

3. If you engaged 'quacks' who failed to diagnose or identify problems, that could also be disastrous.

Another angle to look at benefits of internal audits.
 
L

Laura M

Very good! Can I use that when I train on internal audits! Or better yet, to sell upper management on the need?
 
B

Bobh@pte

I think internal audits are crucial only for the first couple of years. If your business goals and objectives do not change, internal audits become very redundant and useless. They are, however, extremely valuable at the onset.
 
L

Laura M

:nope:

I disagree. Depending on how internal audits are conducted they can also be used to drive improvement. Plus if there is any turnover at all, ensuring procedures and processes remain in place. Not sure if you mean discontinue all together, or reduce frequency, but I think they can continue to be valuable.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
I think internal audits are crucial only for the first couple of years. If your business goals and objectives do not change, internal audits become very redundant and useless. They are, however, extremely valuable at the onset.
While business goals and objectives tend to have a longer life cycle, most organizations that I work with have on-going process changes aiming at continual improvement, efficiency gains, etc...Internal auditing, if adequately planned and executed can provide invaluable feedback about the deployment and stability of these on-going changes.
Internal audits that keep re-checking the same "high level" issues and are perceived as non value added are normally disconnected from the processes that they are supposedly assessing. That typically happens when the organization uses a standard-based checklist, instead of doing a true process based assessment.
 
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