WHERE do you find your internal auditors?

What I'm really want is to have auditors from all over the place. There is a host of advantages in that approach, like:

• No problems finding truly independent auditors.
• People with different backgrounds see things differently
• They automatically function as Q/E ambassadors in their every day work
• Q/E issues are no loonger seen as solely something concerning Engineering or production
• More....?

/Claes

Attitude vs. Aptitude

Most internal auditors I have seen in three companies were appointed because they had an eye for detail in their particular occupation. While some of them were very accurate with their interpretations, some were very argumentative when they were told that they were wrong or off track. Finding a good internal auditor is a lot like finding a good employee. You try real hard but sometimes it appears to be a crap shoot.

I have had experience with internal auditors appointed by management who felt that they were in a position to wreak havoc on other personnel that they didn't like. We had to rein them in and do it carefully, because nobody wanted to be an auditor in the first place and we could not afford to lose any. As the MR, I controlled the scope of the audit and made sure that it stayed on track. Many times, I've kicked back the report because it was beyond the scope and, I knew, was personal and an attempt to embarrass the auditee. Personality has as much to do with being a good auditor as intelligence.

You also have to be careful with the selection of a "blue collar" auditor to make sure that they aren't too eager and have an axe to grind or, just as bad, will be intimidated as the audit homes in on some possible management non compliance issues. JMHO

Very valid points Energy.

I have to say though, that I see as many white as blue collars holding grudges... However, so far I've been very lucky in that respect. I have not even once been forced to straighten an auditor out (and for that, I'm very grateful. Though it may be well concealed I have quite a temperament, and when a particularly bad combination of buttons gets pressed.... well).

/Claes

Not to belabor the point.

Claes Gefvenberg said:

Very valid points Energy.

I have to say though, that I see as many white as blue collars holding grudges... However, so far I've been very lucky in that respect. I have not even once been forced to straighten an auditor out (and for that, I'm very grateful. Though it may be well concealed I have quite a temperament, and when a particularly bad combination of buttons gets pressed.... well).

/Claes

Click to expand...

I've seen more white collar auditors with attitudes than blue collar. You call it grudges, I called it dislike. Same thing. And, I've seen both white collar and blue collar auditors duck the hard questions and accept weak responses because of intimidation. Looking back at it, can't say that they were wrong!

Re: Not to belabor the point.

energy said:
And, I've seen both white collar and blue collar auditors duck the hard questions and accept weak responses because of intimidation. Looking back at it, can't say that they were wrong!

Click to expand...

Another good reason to outsource the Internal Audits to guys like little old me and Marc and db and the other freelancers here

One of the things that I like about this product (at least its advertisement - since I have never used the product) is that you can...

Create a checklist based on your audit findings

Click to expand...

Not that you can create audit findings based on your checklist, but vice-versa. Now is that getting the cart before the horse, or what?

Afterall, it would be one way of ensuring that the Auditor was always right (well maybe anyway)

You know this may in-fact be a good product, but their advertising leads one to question.

All we need is a compatible 'auditee in a box' and we could set the two systems off to talk to each other endlessly.

Where do we get our auditors? They came to me from a combination of ways, some wanted to and some were forced upon me. Even those that volunteer don't always make the cut. Internal auditing is not for everyone, it is a difficult thankless job. I try to reward the internal auditors we do have with tokens of appreciation some stick and others run screaming. I only askt them to audit areas they are comfortable. Do blue collar make better auditors than white collar, not really. JMHO, but you are going to see an equal number of good and bad auditors from both groups.

Well put ISO GUY,

Not everybody is an auditor. Some people don't like checklists, some confrontation, some fear of the unknown.

While people that do audit as part of their career usually have the correct mindset and goals, some others are thrust into positions for which they are not qualified for abstract thought and/or the relationships between the differing aspects of a company.

It is truly not their fault, and most try to do the best they can. Others use it as a wedge to settle past differences thereby cancelling the real reason for an audit.

People need to think of internal audit as an opportunity to promote and improve a good internal system that benefits all departments to promote the entire process.

If the above is too windy, some people suck at being auditors and some don't, the trick is the find, then differentiate between the two.

Plus, if there is a good M.R. there will not be bad auditors!!

One additional point...

There is one point I haven't made yet about having auditors from all over the organisation: Apart from the auditing business, our auditors also function as a kind of Quality and/or Environmental ambassadors.

This is rather important, but nothing formal. People know that the auditors have above average skills in these fields and tend to come to them for advice... Which is great for the flow of information and adds a bit to the auditors' status.

Opinions and ideas about this aspect?

/Claes