WHERE do you find your internal auditors?

IMHO! What the heck does that stand for? Can you tell I'm new to this stuff?

I think you're following me around to drive your message of an internal audit program would focus more on what management are 'worried' about, and less on some abitrary criterion like 'covering all the elements a year' Trust me, I'm working on that....Management discusses what they are "worried" about in management review meetings.....bottom line it's about making money. AND believe it or not, they worry about staying certified without additional costs involved with external auditors having to come back to verify CA's that they may find if I'm not out there ensuring they conform to all the elements in the standard!

My auditors are mainly folks in the Quality organization but auditing takes them away from their normal job. They get paid for doing their normal job and are not measured on their performance of internal audits.

IMHO = In My Honest Opinion! (sorry it's sort of 'text speak! I've got teenagers!)

Well at least I'm consistent! We often read here about how management don't support audits, or work on corrective actions or some other lament about the audit program. Often the audit program isn't linked to making money! What frequency is your Management Review? If it's only once or twice a year, that's not the place to direct the audit program....

Maybe - if you're actually addressing the scheduling of audits - you might have the wrong people doing the audits! Not everyone 'gets it' when it comes to doing audits. You've gotta be a bit like 'Columbo'.......have you considered what an auditors competencies are?

What kind of planning do the auditors do? Do you fully involve them in the planning and preparation for each assignment? There's a saying; "People tend to support what they contribute to".....

Do these folks work for you, or someone else? Maybe they see this as doing you a favor, rather than it coming from the 'boss'.

Thanks!! Actually I have teenagers too and I still don't understand all their language.

Our management reviews are quarterly. My boss (Quality Director) takes part in those meetings. Maybe I should be asking him what management is worried about and prepare my audit team based on that input?

The auditors don't report directly to me and most of them have been volunteered by their boss not volunteered on their own. I only create the audit schedule and ask/push for volunteers. The auditor is responsible for their own audit preparation.

I've also given thought to dropping some of the auditors that I don't feel do a good job but I don't want to loose the resources. Maybe they don't do a good job because of me? I'm starting to think that I need to be a little more involved with each audit especially when it comes to the scope and what management is worried about.....What are your thoughts about the responsibilities of a lead auditor?

AndyN said:

IMHO = In My Honest Opinion! (sorry it's sort of 'text speak! I've got teenagers!)

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Or for In My Humble Opinion

And then there's IMNSHO = In my not so humble opinion when you're 'feeling full of yourself' as we say down here (ie, no modesty or humility there!).

But not just 'text speak' - these kinds of shorthand are used fairly widely in many forums, chatrooms etc, because it saves typing I guess. I'll just bet Wikipedia has a list of 'em somewhere.

And yes, I'm right - here or here for example..

goodtimes said:

Our management reviews are quarterly. My boss (Quality Director) takes part in those meetings. Maybe I should be asking him what management is worried about and prepare my audit team based on that input?

The auditors don't report directly to me and most of them have been volunteered by their boss not volunteered on their own. I only create the audit schedule and ask/push for volunteers. The auditor is responsible for their own audit preparation.

I've also given thought to dropping some of the auditors that I don't feel do a good job but I don't want to loose the resources. Maybe they don't do a good job because of me? I'm starting to think that I need to be a little more involved with each audit especially when it comes to the scope and what management is worried about.....What are your thoughts about the responsibilities of a lead auditor?

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Yes, use your boss! I'm guessing he doesn't know how to use a good audit program!

You should be coaching these auditors in their preparation - they'll only get out of the audit, what they put in and it sounds like they don't get much out!

This preparation will also show your interest in it and help them get 'involved'. As has been posted recently, auditing is a thankless task. It's often that way because the hapless audit is expected to be good straight out of the training class, with little to no practical experience other than what they got in about 2 hours in class. I'd be scared witless, let alone 'disinterested!

They really need a safety net at all stages, a bit like learning to ride a bike, before they can steam off to do an audit fully competently.

Claes Gefvenberg said:

I'm curious...as you all know Where (in which departments / functions) do you find your infernal... sorry, internal auditors?

/Claes

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Some companies are outsourcing there internal auditing which is perfectly acceptable. Those companies are finding that it is costly to keep people trained on internal auditing, and that in these rough economic times they are losing some of there experienced internal auditors.

LarryCP said:

Some companies are outsourcing there internal auditing which is perfectly acceptable. Those companies are finding that it is costly to keep people trained on internal auditing, and that in these rough economic times they are losing some of there experienced internal auditors.

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Outsourcing has been used for a long while. I've done them myself. All the client wanted was for me to keep the CB auditor off his back. So, I did one big system wide audit once a year. It was too expensive to have me really do what was necessary, which was more frequent, more focused audits. I really only scratched the surface and got then canned anyway because he found someone cheaper!

It's a fine way to get a program started, mentor a few good candiates for auditors, but doesn't have much 'legs' except in unique circustances. It would be tough to jsuify 'status and importance', if management only did called you in like I was.....

I'm Mr in a design company, audits have to do alone, and also all activities for maintaining and improving QMS.There is lot of work, but I like what I do. I need a template for a checklist for project audits and another for an audit department. Thanks.

Go to the 'post attachments list' in the header bar at the top left hand corner of the page and do a search with 'checklist' as the keyword.

Hi !

We have a mixed team composed from quality plant and the other production department - the Q responsibles. I think for us this works best and gives for them the specific inside of the issues and where to look in detail. This quality-production mix is a plus when auditing internaly.